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  1. #1

    Default Recruit the Noobs

    I'm posting this because it's pretty boring on Titan right now. The only OP-fighting clans right now are we (17th) and the Tsunami Clan (Pricks/CA). There is lots of whining ingame and on the forums but little ingame action and I think this could easily be fixed by a few people taking responsibility and making a decent clan.

    What i mean when i say "decent" ? People just want to play the game and have fun with their clan while playing the game. Don't start a toxic environment by flaming/whining/ninjaing after fights. Don't get super pissed of and don't play for a week after you loose a fight. Don't tell everyone you're the best PvPer on the server and if someone beats you they cheat/zerg/exploit. (Don't focus only on PvE. Every single member we had, that wanted to do only PvE left the game after they capped a few and got bored.)

    Why do i think i need to say this? In the last weeks a lot of the veterans told me they were approached by smaller clans that are just trying to get some good PvPers to kick our ass (or the Tsu Clan's ass). But when i get asked what clans are actually joinable if you want to OP-fight, i can only say 17th or pricks/ca because none of the smaller clans actually try to OP-fight.
    On the other hand I encountered a lot of unclanned guys who might not be the uber-PvP-veterans who were looking for a clan but coudn't find one. Those guys get rejected by clans that can't even OP-fight because they aren't considered good enough. And then there are tons of LEd guys running around, who you just have to talk to, help them out a bit and ask them if they want to play with your clan.

    If you're not a complete douchebag you can have OPs from us and ask us for help with whatever.(You can even use our ts for the start)

    tl;dr Make a new clan, recruit the guys who are noobs/just came back to the game.

  2. #2
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    I think that's someone that most people can agree on. There are already some new clans, now make something guys!

  3. #3
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    We already got bored and quit. I say we as about 5 of us have gone to play APB reloaded for a pvp fix instead.

    The toxicity existed on both sides during the time we tried fighting for ops as did the ninjaing. Even if we fought for an op and won it was taken back although in fairness this happened maybe twice and you did leave krupp well alone. Then again when we took rockshore and drakkan off of black cartel who didnt deserve to own ops they got taken from us as well.

    Not sure if you guys knew but we have struggled to get players online at any decent hour of the day when pops were good. We have since lost 2 to real life. 2 more have disappeared and about 10 others never bother to really log on. we could muster a maximum of 4 people on line at a given time which means the above advice makes total sense in the op post.

    However. The problem is this. I have gamed for years with some of the guys we tried to get to come back. We threw so much at them in terms of guns and stuff to get them started and they still log on once in a blue moon. We have a whatsapp group full of chatter every day but not many made the effort to log on and play. Im not prepared to throw a ton of stuff at someone i dont know just to have them log off and disappear with no reward for the effort. I wouldnt ever expect someone to do it for me either which means a long wait while the "noob" becomes combat ready. Then they need to learn to op fight. Again due to shitty numbers we could never even practice op fights and sucked considerably at team based pvp when compared to single fights in neofrag or what ever as they are two different animals. There are a billion threads on our forums about op fights and still people did dumb shit which was hard to eliminate without practice.

    Myself personally i play evenings australian time which is the deadest time of the server and i dont wanna sit up till 5am to op fight so i move on. i will come back again im sure when a patch is released and the populations outside of euro time pick up or there is some how more action to be found in this game because i sure as hell dont want to pve anymore.


    Great thread and i hope it picks up but i gave my best in the month or so i played again but its not happened so im gonna take another long absence and hope that it picks up soon.
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  4. #4

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    I totally agree with what Bluerobot says. My experience is that there are people around waiting to be picked up or asking around for clans, but just not getting any.


    Iīm not saying throw equipment at them or anything, but there is a definite need for clans to start picking up unexperienced people. Weīre not at the population lvls where clans can expect to pick up practiced OP-fighters without any effort.

    Of course they wonīt be as effective as the guys who have been around all this this time, but they might be in time, and the most important thing would be that you are teaching guys who might bring al ot to the server.


    A pity to see the Regulators have already given up, but judging from the strict rules that William posted here Iīm not surprised you couldnīt get more people to join. Come back soon tho, Iīm hoping to kill and trade with you soon.
    I AM IRON MAN

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  5. #5
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Aside from echoing Doc's sentiments it seems to me the answer is clearly staring you guys in the face.


    Split 17th, make it two times 8 and a half if you have to. You are a victim of your own "success". Recruiting half the server has given you nobody to fight. You guys need to take a good long look at your own active population in your clan and then relate that to the active op fighting population on the server. You already have the majority of the players, now you have noone to fight.


    It is all good saying hey guys go do this and then think about the time frame involved to A) level the noobs B) equip the noobs and C) train the noobs. This could take a matter of days, even weeks or possibly months in some cases - real life dependent.

    See the alternative solution is have a huge purge of CM and chuck a load of people out into another faction - whats the harm? You are all still mates at the end of the day and as you said you can use the TS together. That way you get to fight one another.

    In a clan that size there will be a few friendship groups, split along those lines is easy to do.

    I had a conversation last time I was in game with one of your members and my advice was the above, his reply was that you had stopped recruiting ages ago but I know that I have been approached personally on two chars by various high ranking alts in the clan in the last month or two.

    I hate to be the doomsayer but I could see this happening when I made that other thread a while back. I guess this is just a case of you made your bed and now you have to sleep in it.


    In the meantime for a pvp fix I have battlefield 4 and APB. If anyone fancies playing either one with me/us then give us a shout.



    good luck with your op fighting.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  6. #6

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    William.

    Seriously? You think splitting one of the few clans able to organize a fighting team up will improve the server? I disagree totally.

    Instead, how about making an effort. Yeah it takes some training and equipment to make a good fighter out of someone who just came back or started. But thatīs what a clan has to do to improve and survive. Help other clanmates lvl, help them with gear, teach them what you know that they donīt. Especially since the server-numbers are low, this isnīt the time to be picky and overly selective.

    Thing is, 17th has done our job in building a clan. And you want to punish us for actually making an effort in training and equipping our members? Just because you are too lazy to make an effort. Please Will, thatīs just lame.



    By the way, I seem to remember a threat from you that you had the backing of many veterans of neocron to take OPs and changing the op-fighting scene. Guess it was just bullshit and wind heh?

    Back up your words with actions more often Will...


    17th wonīt be disbanded on your request. So why do you keep saying it?
    I AM IRON MAN

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  7. #7
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Get over yourself son.

    You asked the rest of the community to give you an opposition. Guess what buddy its not gonna happen.

    If you want this doing you are gonna have to do it the simplest, easiest and most effective way. Start it for yourself.


    Yes I do think that splitting the clan will make it better, you will have all of these pvpers ready to fight one another. You will have more (smaller yes but more as you wished for) fights.

    I made an effort. I got bored. I went to find my pvp fix elsewhere. I busted a nut for 2 months getting people geared up to go fight. I put in countless hours morning noon and night. I got bored because pvp in nc is dying. The quality fights we used to have are gone now.

    There arent enough people to sustain the quality of pvp I want. There arent enough fights, too much downtime, a plethora of other reasons. I can log on to battlefield and see more people in one server most of the times I play.

    I can log onto APB and get a good fight going with only 2 people on my side (up to 4 in my team) EVERY SINGLE TIME I log in.

    You remember a thread, not a threat. Choose your words more carefully.

    I dont give a shit about 17th, youre just the latest in a long list of names of clans who have come along and controlled the majority of ops on the server (I wont use the term owned due to the connotations of said word). I give a shit about the fights. I want good quality pvp. Not zoneline hugging, not 11 ppus and 5 fighters. Not any of the other stuff that has happened in nc pvp of late. I want a balanced pvp experience.

    Punish you? ROFL no. I want you to see that the only way you are going to get any traction with this request is to start by getting the ball rolling. Lead by example.

    In my job at work I lead a team of people. Granted my team is small but I am the one in charge. When I ask them to graft hard I make damned sure I am doing it with them. I lead from the front. I roll up my sleeves and I fill sandbags along with them. I do not sit at the top of my hierarchy and tell everyone else what to do. I make sure I am there doing the same. Do you see where I am coming from with this?

    I give a shit about the fights. I want good quality pvp. Not zoneline hugging, not 11 ppus and 5 fighters. Not any of the stuff that has happened in nc pvp of late. I want a balanced pvp experience. So do lots of other people. A lot of them didnt bother to post in this thread. They just silently left and went to other games and left you with the experience you have now and the fights you crave.

    I am one of the few who bothered to post in your thread and show you an opposite side of the coin, an opinion which you might not have wanted but you got anyway. If you expected us all here to go "yeah ok well lets do that I am up for that god damnit I cant believe I didnt think of it" then you are sadly mistaken.

    I have cabinets full of rares, lots of stored up guns, plenty of money in the bank and 12 chars spread over 3 accounts. At least 6 of those are op fight ready and can, if and when I decide to pvp in NC again go and op fight. However my heart isnt in it this week.

    As I said in another thread Op fighting in NC used to be the best fun I could have with my clothes on, these days its not even a dick tease.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  8. #8
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I hope that something good comes of this thread, I genuinely do.


    However looking at it from an outsiders perspective it essentially looks like youre telling the rest of the server to get their asses in gear to come and fight you but not actually offering to DO anything to help them - aside from loaning a TS. It is a token gesture at best.


    I wouldve edited the previous post but I cant for some reason - browser at work wont let me.


    Anyway, good luck!
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  9. #9
    deals legshoots Powerpunsh's Avatar
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    unexperienced players are just cannonfood. The current PVP can only be successfully done with advanced and hardcore gamers. Thats why most avoid PVP (or already quit the game). Everyone should be able to stand quite safe with shields and heal in an opfight so debuff as strategie makes the win. No need nowadays just keep firing. Best aim wins... if there weren't stealthtools we had tank'o'cron.
    Talk about the key problem and not about the numbers of a clan.
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  10. #10
    CmyKK F4nb01 <3 aKe`cj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerpunsh View Post
    unexperienced players are just cannonfood. The current PVP can only be successfully done with advanced and hardcore gamers. Thats why most avoid PVP (or already quit the game). Everyone should be able to stand quite safe with shields and heal in an opfight so debuff as strategie makes the win. No need nowadays just keep firing. Best aim wins... if there weren't stealthtools we had tank'o'cron.
    Talk about the key problem and not about the numbers of a clan.
    QFE - imho the balancing project is still the single most important issue at hand (in the scope of game mechanics).
    The major interpolation WTFs were resolved, but PvP (and PvE) balance remain in a horrible place.

    We all know the game is run by volunteers and things take time. That is ok - but I wish more effort would be made to invalidate the "nc is free, so stfu or gtfo" response that is more common than is healthy for the project in the long run. There are already too many people who followed the advice. Have all plans for funding development and upkeep been buried?
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  11. #11

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    Well, to be fair the pvp around outposts never changed that much significant in the last decade but the playstyle of some clans and runners..

    The problems are well known - the abusable gamemechanics which allows to "clip" around objects, staying into objects, ninja'ing, zerging and so one, its no secret. As a spectator of some pvp fights, I saw these unfair playstyles growing more and more. Opfights became highly emotional, the goal isn't to have a good fight anymore, the goal is to have this outpost at all costs - which is simply WRONG. There is a point you have to accept you were defeated by the enemy, prepare a new fight prolly on a new location.

    I've talked to some of these people, they explained me their playstyle with "[...] because the game mechanics allows me to do so.". - Yes of course, but this is what makes people leaving the fight scene around outposts, and you finally get bored.

    Nevertheless some of the current issues around the opfights are currently addressed by the content team and they working hard to get the things fixed for you. If you have any ideas how to improve the opfights -> post it into the brainport section.


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  12. #12
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I am so pleased you posted that.

    We need Drachenpaladin's sig quote for emphasis here tbh. The part about fixing the community. Between the "win at all costs" mentality and refusal to see an asymmetric point of view (one opposed to the OP) and the lack of pvp balancing I think you can see why this thread came about in the way it has.


    Recruiting the noobs could possibly do more harm than good, some of them might not know how bad pvp is in nc today you might just push them out of the door too! :O
    Last edited by William Antrim; 14-03-14 at 19:04.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    You remember a thread, not a threat. Choose your words more carefully.
    If you dont open the ops then I will open them for you. My clan and I have the full support of a number of very seasoned veterans from all corners of the Neocron universe. We have the man power and we have the resources.

    The above a quote from the THREAD. It is definitely a THREAT. If you donīt do what I tell you to I will take it from you is the gist of it. Choose your corrections more carefully. I know you state in that same post that "this isnīt a threat", but that doesnīt really make i t less of a threat does it?

    I honestly donīt understand how you can say disbanding 17th, which we put a lot of effort into, training, lvling etc, wouldnīt be a punishment thing for us? "Youīre doing to well so you have to disband" Also, you are acting as if there are hundreds of us, thereīs actually like a dozen actives, hardly the whole server.

    What I donīt understand is how you expect to grow the game when you are clearly not interested in taking in other than finished product PvPers. Yes noobs will occasionally hurt you a bit in fights in the beginning. But then they start to get a grasp of things and soon they make pretty much a neutral impression on a fight. And then, after being neutral for a while, getting their practice in, they start to make a positive impact on fights. But you gotta live through the first two phases first, accepting that they will need time to grow. What you need to do is to accept that you might have to let people have time to get better, like the people in 17th did. I for instance came back in november, and started with nothing. I lvled up, met Gonzo at the bunker when lvling, talked to him some and got onto the TS with the guys of 17th. After a few days on TS they let me join the clan. They didnīt throw gear at me, except possibly a buff or two on my ppu, and they let me get right into fighting.

    Sure I had Sweet shouting lovely harsh words at me when he didnīt the antibuffs exactly like he wanted and I was too slow in reshielding him. And poor Ikampmedkvitekrist probably had to do a bit extra to cover my rusty PPUing, but hey, thatīs what you have to accept to train people up. And now, I swear Iīve had maybe 2 or 3 fights where Sweet doesnīt shout at me, which is lovely, and I do feel like I do make a positive contribution in fights now.

    Anyway, itīs not about throwing stuff at noobs and you know it. Most are able to lvl their characters without too much support, you give them a bit of help to get a first PvP weapon and they can fight with you. Itīs about showing them cool stuff to do in this game...

    By the way, Iīm not too fond of being called son in that condescending manner. Iīve argued point for point with you in our discussions on this forum and you havenīt been close to being able to back up most of your statements, or refute mine in any meaningful way. So why would you assume that condescending tone?

    Also, why am I supposed to get over myself? Iīm just saying that wanting one of 2 active opfighting clans to split is the lazy solution, youīre just not prepared to make an effort, to take the time to ease people into PvP.

    Besides, we donīt have to split the clan to get fights, because we do internal fights quite often for practive, 2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4. Thatīs so we can improve and help eachother get better, which you donīt seem to be interested in doing for other people. And itīs not like we are dozens and dozens of people. Weīre more like 10-12, spread between european and american time, so splitting the clan would most likely end in a european clan, and an american/australian clan.

    I promise you that there are enough players around to start training up an opfightng crew, at least there was a month ago before i went on holiday. So quit being picky, and expecting others to do your work for you.

    We built our clan, and not to a huge unmanageable monster like you suggest, but to a size that could fight with LG, TASA, AD. And these clans just suddenly disappeared from the PvP scene. And now we and that CA Tsunami clan are op-fight-ready, waiting for the others on the server to pull yourself together and gather 5-8 people together who can fire their guns in the same direction at roughly the same time. It has been done before, and it is definitely possible to do again.
    I AM IRON MAN

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  14. #14
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Sorry I tuned out. You're missing the point. I don't want your clan to disband. I couldn't care.

    I'm telling you from experience some of the contributing reasons why you have no opposition.

    I don't care for anecdotes or war stories. The fundamental reasons why PvP in this game is flat are here as stated.


    3 other people posted after me yet your entire post just aims at me.

    Great. Well done. Still not interested in training noobs or any of the other stuff you're harping on about.

    I will finish with a quote from Shakespeare.

    Words to heat of deeds, doth cold breath give.

    Actions speak louder than words. My words go unheard so my action is to choose my entertainment elsewhere.


    In case you aren't sure what I mean - split your clan and YOU train the noobs. Get them into your new clans. Train them and everything else you're telling us to do.

    As for your clan, in case you haven't noticed. I honestly don't care.
    Last edited by William Antrim; 14-03-14 at 21:16.
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  15. #15
    Tessier-Ashpool S.A. slith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I See Blue View Post
    [...]We built our clan, and not to a huge unmanageable monster like you suggest, but to a size that could fight with LG, TASA, AD. And these clans just suddenly disappeared from the PvP scene. And now we and that CA Tsunami clan are op-fight-ready, waiting for the others on the server to pull yourself together and gather 5-8 people together who can fire their guns in the same direction at roughly the same time. It has been done before, and it is definitely possible to do again.[...]
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltan
    [...]I've talked to some of these people, they explained me their playstyle with "[...] because the game mechanics allows me to do so.". - Yes of course, but this is what makes people leaving the fight scene around outposts, and you finally get bored.[...]
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