1. #31
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    I think this thread shows William's desparation regarding the GR situation for the OPs. He has written a lot about it in the last year and suggested solutions for it already too.

    Maybe it would really be a good thing if GRs could not be closed anyway.

    It's stupid if it hinders gameplay, especially for new or returning players who want to explore the wastes or hunt and level.

    Alternatively there could be a lot more of public GRs / OPs across the wastes, to make the traveling and exploring easier.

    Regards
    I am pleased you can see the passion.

    As for 17th - sorry gents but shit got flung on both sides. I am more than happy to admit that.

    The thread was written in this forum because it has less chance of A) being edited for flaming as this is the "in game" forum and B) because it is a chance to actually have a discussion.

    Unfortunately some people took offence to some of the things I wrote in the original thread. I guess using the term sheep clan was seen as derogatory. It was not originally intended in that way, but rather to be the latest in a long line of clans that the population gravitates towards like sheep. A descriptive analogy. Not a flame.

    The first post - since edited - was probably the most immature reply I could possibly expect. From there we had mace windu weighing and missing the point by a country mile and continuing on in his own way. I admire the passion and respect the loyalty but it takes two to start an argument and he did nothing to calm a fairly volatile issue.

    Dont get me wrong - I never expected this to be flowers and rainbows. I knew it would get some hot replies, thats why it got selected to be posted in this forum in the first place. It is the place for that stuff. There are always opposing viewpoints. It is one of the things that makes the forum so great, the passion that comes in the posting.

    Thanks for not reading anything I actually wrote Brand and just diving right in, that really helped no end.

    Manuel please highlight the contradictions for me? I am keen to hear your opinions.

    Calm down and take a breath guys then post replies. The shit flinging can stop because mace will hopefully calm down now.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  2. #32

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    I only see two OP's controlled by Regulators. Did something went wrong? :P

    At the moment it's only a Thread without any impact to the map.

    Oh and please change your emblem on your banner. You are no longer a City Admin and dismissed dishonorably

  3. #33
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Who are you exactly?
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  4. #34
    Registered User Gdelic's Avatar
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    Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it’s important.


    i guess that sums it up........

  5. #35
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    less talking .. more shooting ...

  6. #36
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel Moonez View Post
    I didn't want to get involved in this thread in the first place, but it's neocron and everybody has the urge to get into the flame wars.
    It feels like the OP is full of contradictions. And why post it in the RP Forum when none of it is RP? Stay in character or leave it, but don't weave in and out as you please, mixing RP and game discussion on the same page. And judging from the mail you sent my buddy you're not that interested in RP anyway.


    About OP security i have to say that we atleast try to have special GRs like Regant open for all to enjoy. And i don't recall a single occasion where someone asked politely on the chat for a GR and was refused. The rest is just propaganda.

    Are you telling me that isnt roleplay? If the original had actually been a realistic attempt at roleplay, addressed to me by name i would have responded in kind. Instead it came across as a pretty lame arse threat trying to say we are 17th we are the big boys on this server and we will "permit" you to hold some ops. Recent history has shown this to be fairly accurate (from game stuff not the forum war currently raging in this thread)

    Granted bd and cm have never gotten along so there is always that to use as a source of vitriol and bile to spew forth at one and other (for the less educated among you that means smack talk)

    On the subject of ninja hacking and ops etc in the thread and in response to massakers post. Our "peak" in terms of activity is unfortunately during the early hours on the morning in the northern hemisphere. usually around 9-12pm going up till maybe 3-4pm. We actually struggle to field a team during the real euro peak times when you guys have finished your rl stuff and are available for games (i think for some that should include homework on how to write and structure a post but i will just toss that out there and see if it is taken heed of.)

    I assume most of 17th are still at school/uni/work/asleep. We do actually check the com for fights before hacking. The nemesis eastgate etc fights were a direct result of Julius's half arsed attempt at roleplay (i expected better) and in fairness despite some of the people playing with monitors that have stained glass over the top of them (distorting what actually happened) it was a lot of fun. It was also beneficial to get the rust off of certain people and show others just how we expect to pvp and whats required internally because fighting an opponent you dont know is more beneficial than a few rounds in neofrag to battle test.

    As it is the boot has now been put in on this thread by a number of people. All of them are thinly veiled insults or blatant ones in response to williams diatribe.


    You all failed to answer my points on page one listed points 1,2,3.

    Anyway.

    Enough said on the matter. The only person who has really been able to rise above it all as the neutral party is ivan. the rest is a bunch of horse shit and ego's clashing against each other.

    I would be intrigued to see if any of you can actually try and stimulate some reasonable discussion from now on and yes i too am aware i have thrown in some insults in this post but i think some of them were justified too.

    on a final note. according to a message i received earlier 17th ninjad krupp so massaker i think this thread has had its impact on the map.

    give me some ideas about when your peak times are when most of you log on so i know what time to wake up in the morning here in beautiful australia.

    I think some words need to be had and i need to make a deposit of the 150k. plasma ammo will be the currency.
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  7. #37
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    maybe we should just move to Tsunami and make the op fighting scene even more stagnant than it already is..... [/endsarcasm]



    Seriously though, do you guys actually want more people to fight or would you rather own the ops and sit around back-slapping one another and telling each other how wonderful you are?

    Do you gauge a clan on the strength of its players or the amount of ops it takes and can hold?

    What is the true measure of worth here?

    I ask these questions not as a flame but as a genuine curiosity because these same tired old arguments get recycled over and over when this type of discussion comes about. In nc1 on Uranus there was a huge server wide alliance against a specific clan and that clan went right on ahead and beat the alliance into the ground and took the ops just because they could. They didnt care if they didnt have them the next day. It was never about "owning" the ops because the clan leader had the foresight to recognise that you couldnt possibly "police" the op control unless you had a dozen plus people logged in around the clock. For the server wide alliance this was a much easier feat because they just contacted one another out of pure hatred for said clan and attempted to make sure they owned as many of the ops as possible, the nationalistic pride I mentioned in my original post and the pig-headed arrogance flowed through each of them. Still they came in their hordes to defend "their ops" and still they got beat.

    Are they any better or any worse than those people who are left? Who can honestly tell? It would depend on your point of view. The entire position is subjective at the very least.

    Lots of you probably hate me for posting this thread. Some of you may have disliked my opinionated posting already, some of you might even be snide enough to say you don't care. I can see I have clearly touched a few nerves by the amount of feb 14 join dates that are here coupled with single digit posts.

    You have to ask yourselves why was the thread made though? what purpose does it serve? It is the op scene in nc in a nutshell at present. The problem of GR locking summed up in a single post. Inflammatory yes definitely. True though all the same.

    If it generates some thought however and maybe makes people think a little differently then it has done its job.


    the forum is a place for discussion, not flame war. I can sit back and write out a long and thought provoking post easily. I am blessed with that ability and I am mild mannered enough to know that I can calmly argue my points without getting too heated in any discussion.

    As i said, I knew this post was going to cause a few nerves to get frayed. But at least it got you thinking.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  8. #38

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    wow this thread continues. don t know why. what you guys did is moving the flaming from ooc to the forums. this thread is just stupid. it won t change anything in game. it just looks like antrim is trying to say something smart and trying desperatly to call this rp but this just leads nowhere. since we have different peak times this "discussion" could continue via ingame mails then we don t have to bother whole nc with this.
    why i say this ? for me this thread is just about julius mail. he as a merc tried to sell some ops. now you are complaing that 17th are just acting strong but are just weak. noone can rly own outposts etc. and antrim sure has selfconfidence he is non stop praising himself and his smart thread.
    if you guys want to fight then it s good. when it happens that both both clans got people on and we can fight then it s good.
    yeah yeah this thread wasn t meant to be flamed, everyone is stupid and doesn t understand your posts . these flames are just a response to the original post which also means your post had no potential to become a good discussion since no real discussion started.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by -AB- View Post
    less talking .. more shooting ...
    /sign

  10. #40
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    IMO, where it went wrong was calling 17th a sheep-clan..
    Pretty sure that Aim and myself are the last two (OP-active) members that got recruited.
    We even have said to a few people, who also wanted to join, that it would be better if they joined another clan.

    The main reason why I joined 17th was because I was tired of the uselessness of AD (waiting for an hour between OPfights, because people needs reps and shit like that.. Come on..), and I didnt approve of the ninja hacking they did at the time.
    17th was the only choice at the time. Since I personally need a clan that 1: Speaks english, 2: Is active at the same hours as myself.
    And I stay in the clan, because I enjoy it very much (we have some awesome members - when you know them).
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  11. #41
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight brand. Can you see the bigger picture? Genuine question not a flame.

    Walker I did clarify the use of the word - the context of the sheep theory etc. I also did apologise to you if any offence was caused.

    I think that some people just can't take a step back and look at the big picture.
    Last edited by William Antrim; 26-02-14 at 14:52.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  12. #42
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
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    little picture - OMGZ NINJAAA

    big picture - more noob friendly experience / makes for easier more fun gaming due to easier travelling (downside is enemies in UGs but there are other ways to combat that i.e buffing in a clan app / adjacent op)

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post

    Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours.


    If you only have one person online thats cool, I hope he wants a fight.

    If you have nobody online - unlucky bro thats a cool story. Its not a ninja as you dont "own" the op. There is no bill of sale and no legal rights dictating your ownership. You only own it until I come along and successfully hack it. See above. I will do that.
    Sorry for joining in this banter sheep/egotistical thread banter bullshit, but I was too busy shooting folks (even if that person is myself.. the winding argument has a mind of it's own). So let's begin.

    OMG! Bold usage in a forum thread?

    You, (regulators - in case I have to point it out) had 3 on last night to defend Krupp Factory, but you guys were a no show. Even if it was one guy triple logged, I still saw at least 1 online.

    "If you only have one person online thats cool, I hope he wants a fight. "

    Clearly, you guys don't even want to fight. Let alone defend your op 3 vs 5 (we, 17th Squad, had 5) @ Krupp but the only person to show up was Kurse/Envyme from Tsunami clan (Not you, ==> regulators).

    How does any of this relate to this thread?

    Well I'm glad you asked. People can go on tangents, but I would just like to reply to William since this was his "smart" idea.

    "Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours. "

    Promote the freedom of exploration? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were a marketing team for all of Neocron. Freedom of exploration doesn't need to be promoted when it exists in plain sight. Want to explore? Start at A_08 and walk. Want to explore a random sector? Find the nearest Venture Warp. Want to explore but can't? Tell the developers to fix BWD (which, they are pretty good about fixing, they just need a quick poke ) From an RP standpoint, i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure Black Dragon is the least qualified faction to promote freedom of exploration. It doesn't take a prodigious scientist to realize that no faction is really qualified to promote freedom of exploration instead of maybe NEXT? Hmm.. Just throwing it out there.

    You (William Antrium) may not care for op fighting tactics, which includes using your own UG (Underground, for those folks who use 'UGs' as another name of Unressed Tech Parts) for buffs. You may not even know what it feels like to defend an op by yourself. If you did, you'd know how beneficial having the Underground locked is. But oh wait, refer to above. Even with 3 online, you didn't even defend (which btw is easier to do than attacking an op). I guess you'll find out if you do join the op scene.. Trial by fire O_O..

    But wait, you forgot to address the whole "ninja" op thingy

    True story. Go ahead and ninja ops, you'll just be like the aforementioned group of clans you've included in your posts. You'll give us BS reasons [@Divide: "can't control my kids"] or [@AfterDark: "hax, you cheat, blah blah, hacker!"]. The reason why 17th owns the ops we do is because those prior to owning ops decided to quit playing the game. Just look at the new clan, Anarchy Breed. They took the remainder of LG's ops after we took the rest because LG was no longer in the op scene. What i'm getting at here is that there are justified reasons as to why some ops are to be ninja'd. If it hasn't gotten through your head, let me explain:

    LG/TASA - no longer in the op scene. No longer need use for their ops... right?

    Well how do we get TASA and LG to come play? --- How do we resurrect the op scene?

    Well our way to resurrect the op scene was to take 1 outpost a day from the above clans until they came back and took it back. All we ever wanted was a fight. And it worked at least a couple times. I can recall a ton of LG logging on, on a Monday and they gave us a pretty darn good fight. (Just wish they would recruit and get more op ready fighters).

    So LG and TASA, no longer in the picture. Sad story... so what's left is Tsuanmi clan, and 17th Squad fighting each other, which is not all that terrible, we're pretty classy folks..when we want to be.. But this is a welcome for others to come fight. The only reason why 17th owns ops is for others to come and poke us for fights. Don't have Syncon? That's fine, come attack an op that suits your GR list (i.g. Regants). The point is, we're not afraid to lose, we lose, we win, it doesn't matter. What matters is having competition in the op scene which like Divide has put it, "all the power to ya".




    So in conclusion, I hope I get to fight you guys, yesterday was my first attempt, but it just ended with about 9 guys from Tsunami clan taking the op.


    Sincerely,
    Ender Reznik
    17th Squad
    SXR

    Edit1: Forgot to include that you Regulators should really update your signature. Going from CityAdmin to Black Dragon just looks bad, especially if you're trying to RP. How do you explain upholding justice in one faction, to promoting shady business operations in another faction?

    Edit2: "I can see I have clearly touched a few nerves by the amount of feb 14 join dates that are here coupled with single digit posts."

    Forgot to point out how William loves his ego stroked because he points out others "forum join date" like that means something. William, just because you have over 3000 forum posts, doesn't make you significant. If you think it does, then have quite the largest ego here then. And if you haven't gotten it through your head, no one likes egotistical !@#s.
    Last edited by Gunshifty; 26-02-14 at 17:05. Reason: Forgot to point out stupidity/vulnerability
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  14. #44
    -=BlooD=- ancient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    Except for the 6month (give or take a month) where 95% of the PvP'ing population were naughty (Read: Playing APU's that could 2-3shot everyone), I have played for all that time

    I dont think you really get the open UG problem.. I dont think any of us cares if random people uses the OP/UG.. The problem is when there's a whole enemy opteam down there, when the first layer goes down..

    If you havent had it happen to you (yet), its probably because you have JUST started being active in the "OP-scene".
    I've had it happen to me, in several different clans..
    ... And done it to quite a few clans too :P
    > Caster : relax we are not here fir pvp
    >You lost a little sympathy with The Crahn Sect. > You lost a little sympathy with Tangent Technologies. > You lost a little soullight.
    > we are
    > You lost a little sympathy with The Crahn Sect. > You lost a little sympathy with CityAdmin. > You lost a little soullight.
    > think yaself lucky boy

  15. #45
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I love how something as insignificant as a forum sig is being bandied about like its a cardinal sin.

    Thats my only input while i wait for someone to say something worth discussing.
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