New player confused about... pretty much everything...

[Cursed Shadow]

Oh man, the first time I logged into the game back in beta 4 I was absolutely mesmerized. The graphics, futuristic cyberpunk art style, the grittiness, and just the overall scope of the game was really amazing. The fact that all of this was designed around a game that was first-person with real time combat was like a dream come true. I'd go so far to say Neocron was way ahead of its time. I thought the city itself was huge, but the first time I left and opened the map I couldn't believe how much there was to explore.

Not to go off into too much of a tangent, but if the game could receive a facelift (huge, if somewhat an impossible endeavor), more areas to level and explore (basically a PvE redo. So many places to go but the "hotspot" areas are the only places to level effectively) and a boost in XP gain across the board would do wonders and continue to attract many new players like the OP.

I really do think they should try for a Project Kickstarter to raise funds to re-do this game professionally.

[Trivaldi]

Welcome to the Neocron Community. Thank you for your feedback on the new player experience. This is something we want to improve to make it more straight forward for entirely new folk to get into the game. Thankfully, as you can see, while we're working on improving the experience we do have a dedicated community who will help you get started.

As I see no mention of it in your earlier posts, can I ask whether you played the tutorial, offered to you after creating your character? You make reference to the "Offline Demo", I assume from the timeline you gave this was the Neocron 1 Offline Demo (a separate download) and not the current in-game pre-Area MC5 tutorial?

Prior to arriving in Area MC5 there is a tutorial available which guides you through some of the mechanics of the game. This also sets up the story for how you end up a memory wiped new character, wandering around in the strange place in the desert. If you did step through that tutorial, it would be great to hear your feedback on that as well. All information brand spanking new players to Neocron can give, is important information we can use to address any blockers preventing people getting hooked.

[fatbackwards]

Welcome to the Neocron Community. Thank you for your feedback on the new player experience. This is something we want to improve to make it more straight forward for entirely new folk to get into the game. Thankfully, as you can see, while we're working on improving the experience we do have a dedicated community who will help you get started.

As I see no mention of it in your earlier posts, can I ask whether you played the tutorial, offered to you after creating your character? You make reference to the "Offline Demo", I assume from the timeline you gave this was the Neocron 1 Offline Demo (a separate download) and not the current in-game pre-Area MC5 tutorial?

Prior to arriving in Area MC5 there is a tutorial available which guides you through some of the mechanics of the game. This also sets up the story for how you end up a memory wiped new character, wandering around in the strange place in the desert. If you did step through that tutorial, it would be great to hear your feedback on that as well. All information brand spanking new players to Neocron can give, is important information we can use to address any blockers preventing people getting hooked.

First off... I really.... really can't stress enough, from all of you... that you're help has been amazing. Really. I didn't think I'd get such a swift response, especially due to the fact that there doesn't seem to be as big of a player-base here as even SWGEmu. I mean, don't get me wrong; not saying you guys are worse... just, no one I know knows about this game... And even less want to touch it now. I still remember taking that box home and my friend, who was a huge Deus Ex fan, just looking at it going... '

Friend: "No."
Fatbackwards: "Look! It looks cool, all cyberpunk... post-dystopia... hell, it's got CopBots!"
Friend: "There's more latex on the cover than in a German brothel!"
*Fatbackwards looks at the back of the box...*
Fatbackwards: "Huh... The company is based in Germany..."

Uhm... But I realize this... I knew from way back in 2005 the NPE wasn't good... and that's what prevented me from playing it... also, a weird time I chose to join; inbetween the transfer between Neocron 1 and 2... so both games were running at the same time, and it was ALL confusing for me.

EDIT: OH YEAH... Memories come in from a fog... Didn't Neocron have a problem with billing at one point? Like they couldn't accept PayPal... only some sort of like, paysafecash system? I remember something like that. THAT's what stopped me! I couldn't get PayPal to authorize a monthly fee transfer; so I didn't continue. Jesus... A wave of disappointment just rolled over me as I remembered that.

Anywho... Uhm... I think, the best situation for me right now; and a preemptive 'hook' that I need to get suckered in is to just keep a log of my experiences in the game, and hopefully at the end write up a 'Getting Started' guide for new players. Stuff that I got stuck on, someone else might quit because of.

Anyways, to answer some questions...

- I did complete the Tutorial. It was ok, it wasn't that bad because it gave you time to understand the interface, swap armor and weapons in, and gave you a feel that it was a full-on RPG... not an action shooter with RPG elements. And it set the tone as to why you were in the MC-5... which became a bit more sinister when, in the tutorial you were actively working against Risa... all of a sudden you're spouting that you will give your life for her. Chip much?

And yes, that was the Neocron 1 standalone demo. I think it also came with a LOUD screensaver, that constantly had the sound of mechanical electrical humming. I don't remember much, but I remember talking with a CopBot... and something about "Radioactive Smut", which I confiscated after quoting some arbitrary law to the guy who had it. Then it ended...

Anyways, the tutorial itself wasn't bad. I got the basic navigation from the windows, and overall... it taught me how to open the menu screens and the like. What it didn't teach me was how to access the Help channel... which, I tell ya... that was fun to figure out.

*Fatbackwards is sitting hunched over his keyboard, making out small words on his screen*
"No slider for the font, everything is in harsh green, the menus are confusing... THE HELL IS HELP CHAT?!?... WHY IS THIS SO HARD?"
"OH! OH!!! THERE IT IS... I only had to click "Custom" and SCROLL DOWN, and click it... to toggle it."

Please, make accessing the Help chat easier... make it like a normal channel you can thumb through. I didn't know it was under custom, so I thought I was doing something wrong.

The problem I had was the MC-5 is just confusing. I knew how to equip my stuff because of the tutorial, or use the navray... but not... how to do the place. I think the worst that happened was I needed to get those chips, like... I forgot which ones, that drop off of who, and where. So, I ended up killing random robots inside buildings and taking everything from them... and I'd walk back every time to that technician to basically go:

*Fatbackwards enters the compound*
Fatbackwards: *hands the Lead Technician a bunch of crap* "Is it done yet?"
Lead Technician: *looks over the stuff* "No."
*Fatbackwards leaves the compound*
...
...
*10 minutes later*
...
...
*Fatbackwards enters the compound*
Fatbackwards: *hands the Lead Technician a bunch of crap* "Is it done yet?"
Lead Technician: *looks over the stuff* "No."
*Fatbackwards leaves the compound*

I feel an actual mission log, with tracking and navray support would help. Like... you start the game off that bed, and when you talk to the Lead Technician... he gives you an actual quest log mission. That way, you can see how many chips you need, where to go (via navray), and... you know... what you need to kill.

I know... Alot of people have said that this is an old-style MMO... one that takes a long time to learn... But, apparently my years of playing modern-day games left it's toll... I mean, I remember playing the hell out of SWG when it released... walking around killing tortons with a newbie blaster with a group of confused people. I couldn't speak the wookie language, and it was a week before I figured out how to do that... there was a sense of collective learning everywhere you would go. Someone would figure out, "HEY, there's a giant bug creature that drops stuff in these caves!" and people would run to these caves to fight it, in droves... it was like a gold rush of new information.

I can only imagine it was like this when Neocron was new... because right now... I don't have that luxury. I don't see many new people, and it's hard to team up when you can't distinguish between who's max level... and who's just some guy like me.

I mean, after leaving the confusing situation of MC-5... A breath of fresh air was doing Mr. Jones's quests... he's alright; you know, thanks to Tech Haven having a current guide for doing him; and the navray having the locations. I mean... otherwise sometimes you'd get lost big time. But, I had my nav-ray bug out once when doing the Rigger starter quest for Jones. After I got the part from the named guy in the backroom, you know... near the NEXT headquarters building... I wanted to head to 'Machine Room'... so I set up my navray, left that building... and ended up at a biotech store, RIGHT NEXT to the NEXT HQ. Navray said vehemently that this was the place, so I attempted to talk with all four vendors... didn't want my part. They wanted my money.

Past that, I didn't know this was a sandbox MMO, to be honest... >_> I don't know if you guys are underselling that tidbit of information, but that would be nice to paste in somewhere. Lets you know what you're getting into. I mean, I knew Neocron didn't have quests... but, I always thought leveling somehow was... I don't know, structured. Which is why I was asking "Am I stuck in a sewer?", because I'm used to being in this situation nowadays; where I'm stuck in a sewer until I'm strong enough to go to the next area to fight harder things, and the cycle continues. The idea that I could go exploring... while feasible, scared me.

"Will I die? What happens if I die? What if I get spawned somewhere I don't know? The last giant respawn machine I touched was in MC-5... will I go back there? What if I get my face rolled by an enemy, what will happen to my gear? I know it's not a lot of stuff, but it's my stuff... and people said the shops aren't worth buying from..."

In an unfamiliar situation, you tend to latch on to anything familiar until you feel rooted... and for me, that apparently was the sewers... because actually leaving them to go somewhere else is quite distressing for me. As much as I hate them, I don't know what else to do... and I don't have any friends who play this... so Neocron is a big, scary city.

I guess it would also be nice to set up some sort of Neocron Lexicon... I mean, you guys are spouting stuff like PPU's, and PU's, and LOM (Thanks Doc for telling me what that is! ^^). I don't... know what any of this means, you know... past LOM. I don't know what a constructor really does... why I need one really. I mean, I don't want to get scammed by someone taking my money and running... especially if I try ordering something I have no idea if I can use/need or not.

That's another thing I'm having a problem with. I have... a couple guns... and like, I can't tell which one would be better to use or not. I don't see clear indications of stats or... like... how much they even shoot. Granted, I can't use most of them, because of Dex requirements... but this will hit me when I get that requirement; and I'll have to choose which gun to use. Right now, I have NO IDEA.

Also, uhm... leveling in this game... do random stats just go up? I see like my strength stat go up one... then my intellect... then my dex, all while shooting the same gun on the same enemies. So, how can I tell what my level is? People say like 'Level 30, the chip will start sucking XP and cash'... Uh... What's level 30? I can't... figure out what level I am.

I guess that's all for now... I'm really thankful for the help and the interest this is getting. If I don't make it to cap, I at least what someone who's gonna be entering the game behind me to not be as confused as I am.

[Dribble Joy]

EDIT: OH YEAH... Memories come in from a fog... Didn't Neocron have a problem with billing at one point? Like they couldn't accept PayPal... only some sort of like, paysafecash system? I remember something like that. THAT's what stopped me! I couldn't get PayPal to authorize a monthly fee transfer; so I didn't continue. Jesus... A wave of disappointment just rolled over me as I remembered that.

NC used to use Worldpay, which had problems of it's own. At some point it moved over to Click2pay which many banks ddin't want to use as it is primarily an online gaming payment system. Paypal was added later I think.

MC5 Stuff.

You've pretty much described why people strongly recommend leaving that place as fast as possible .

I guess it would also be nice to set up some sort of Neocron Lexicon... I mean, you guys are spouting stuff like PPU's, and PU's, and LOM (Thanks Doc for telling me what that is! ^^). I don't... know what any of this means, you know... past LOM. I don't know what a constructor really does... why I need one really.

Check out this page.

There are a variety of tradeskill sub-classes; primary ones are researchers (those who create blueprints of items and discover what certain loot items are), constructors build items with the blueprints researchers make and implanters (usually called pokers) who implant the various cybernetics available.

I mean, I don't want to get scammed by someone taking my money and running... especially if I try ordering something I have no idea if I can use/need or not.

People are not going to scam a n00b player, not worth it.

That's another thing I'm having a problem with. I have... a couple guns... and like, I can't tell which one would be better to use or not. I don't see clear indications of stats or... like... how much they even shoot. Granted, I can't use most of them, because of Dex requirements... but this will hit me when I get that requirement; and I'll have to choose which gun to use. Right now, I have NO IDEA.

In the inventory, right click and select 'Show Info'. That will give you a whole load of info on the item, including requirements and what kind of ammo it uses.

Also, uhm... leveling in this game... do random stats just go up? I see like my strength stat go up one... then my intellect... then my dex, all while shooting the same gun on the same enemies. So, how can I tell what my level is? People say like 'Level 30, the chip will start sucking XP and cash'... Uh... What's level 30? I can't... figure out what level I am.

Like some other games, it's a bit like 'learn by doing'.
As a very general rule of thumb, if an action uses a subskill (like pistol combat or construction) then the mainskill it is associated with gains xp. As there are five mainskills, you have five separate xp pools. When you get enough xp, that mainstat increases by one and you get 5 points to spend in it's associated subskills.
So shooting things with a pistol gets you dex xp (since pistol combat is under dex) and int xp (as weapon lore is under int).
It also adds strength xp because whatever (probably so private eyes and spies can actually level strength).

The average of your five mainskills is your level. The skills window (F5 I think?) will show your rank at the top; something like 9/4. The first is your combat rank - how good your are with your weapon, your health, etc., the second is your level.

[William Antrim]

Fat what timezone are you on? England? USA? Europe? Further afield?

When you are on next give me a shout and I will help you with the game. For now dont worry about dying (you wont really lose anything other than a few credits) and it will happen plenty.

If you have questions come here to ask them and we will all do our best to answer them. Keep your LE in and make sure to get yourself around as many of the wonders you can find in NC.

I speak for the entire community I believe here and I can honestly tell you many of us would actually pay to be in your shoes right now. We have tried in our various ways to recapture that innocence of being a noob in the sewers. We tell each other stories about it all of the time but many of us are too long in the tooth to remember it clearly. It is a time of magic and wonder and enlightening discovery. It is something that you will treasure and remember for the rest of your gaming life. Enjoy it while you have it because when that innocence is gone and you have learned everything that this game can throw at you, you will love it even more.

[zii]

I would start this game with gen tank driver in Tangent Technology faction.

I would spend all starting int points to weapon lore.
STR half heavy weapons and oher half transport.
Con 10 points to athletic and rest body health.
Dex 16 points to recycle skill and rest in agility.

I would skip the tutorial and come straight to city to your apartment.
After that i would ask some help in help channel what to do next.

I pretty much did this set-up with all my chars including Spies and PEs. I levelled up their CON and STR quickly in the Plaza2 cellars with a poor grenade launcher.

I don't know if somebody mentioned this before, http://www.techhaven.org/ should be a great port of call, because it's loaded with information and a brillant wiki.

And finally, welcome to this wonderfully frustrating game for life

[William Antrim]

That's the benefit of experience though. You're forgetting that part. He's new don't deny him that experience of learning.

It's like parents who want their child to grow up fast, when they get to 25 and ask you for money towards their wedding then you suddenly wonder where those years went.

[fatbackwards]

Fat what timezone are you on? England? USA? Europe? Further afield?

I'm living in Berlin right now, so GMT +1. Europe.

I'm usually on during the evenings/night time.

And again, thanks for all the help. Really. Though... Doc Holiday: Took your advice and went to 'Club Veronique'..

Ok, first off... this is an MMO with a graphic red light district. What?

Second off. I found that hatch. And. I found nightmare fuel. WHAT ARE THESE THINGS?!

*Fatbackwards is clicking around in the abandoned basement*
"Huh, this isn't so bad... I like the fact that it has co---- OH mY Gdooodddddd---"
*Flicks the mouse across the desk.*

No really, those things that look like half-snake/half-lizard with all their bones showing...

"Things that make you go... Buhhhh...." *shivers*

I guess I have another question to carry over into this post. Now, when you examine a gun... does the ammo/damage denote the amount of damage it gives, or does the piercing stat do it?

Because my gun doesn't show a stat for ammo/damage, but it does for piercing... and apparently, it shoots for 13... but when I shoot, it hits for 17; So, I'm a bit confused.

[Dribble Joy]

Those numbers don't really mean a whole lot, besides, the frequency of a weapon is a critical factor in how much damage it does, not just how much per hit. Mob armour and the level of your skills also affect the final value.

Your rate of xp gain is linked to the TL* of your weapon, so the higher the better (for gaining xp at least).

*TL, or Tech Level, is a key factor in much of neocron. All items have a TL and it's one of the first things listed on the info screen. Though not a hard and fast rule, the TL of a weapon, implant or piece or armour is the same as the mainskill requirement to use it. It's crucial in tradeskilling too.

[fatbackwards]

Ok... a bit of Weapon lore, for aiming... rifle combat for effectiveness... a new gun, some new bones and rims in my brain... and this is a completely different game now!

Thanks again Virgil Earp, and Live/Loose Wire... A gentle push gave me not only more confidence, but damn am I killing faster now.

Guess after a bit of killin', I'll walk around all of Neocron... and take in the sights.


EDIT: There's a difference between 5.56 MM rounds and bullets.

[Dribble Joy]

The difference between a starter or shop bought weapon and a player-built weapon is enormous, especially if it's several levels above what you are currently using.

And yes, there are different types of ammo. Over the years many different weapons have been added and the number of ammo types has subsequently increased.

The info screen for a weapon will display what ammo types the weapon currently supports (as well as if certain mods are installed/can be added). Check which one your weapon can use before buying ammo.

This is important for rifles, as there are numerous different weapons whose ammo packs use the same image. Street Model rifles (like your starter rifle), Assault rifles, Sniper Rifles and at least THREE different high level unique weapons (I think the CAR/IAR and the Swat/Reaper use the same rounds). Oh, and they all have three alternate ammo types beyond the regular rounds.
24 different ammo types.

You may now know about slots (if those guys told you about them); each slot allows a single mod. That mod can either be a quality improver (dmg, freq, etc.) an ammo mod (so you can use fire, xray, whatever ammo) and things like scopes and laser pointers.

[Doc Holliday]

Ok... a bit of Weapon lore, for aiming... rifle combat for effectiveness... a new gun, some new bones and rims in my brain... and this is a completely different game now!

Thanks again Virgil Earp, and Live/Loose Wire... A gentle push gave me not only more confidence, but damn am I killing faster now.

Guess after a bit of killin', I'll walk around all of Neocron... and take in the sights.


EDIT: There's a difference between 5.56 MM rounds and bullets.

Fat if i see you in game i will try and give you a little more help a long the way. I see you mention virgil by name in your post. he is a friend of mine im glad he managed to help you.

Look out for guys with the Regz clan tag in black dragon faction. Most of them will help you out if you need it. We arent a bad bunch of people. I am around usually during the day times for german time to the early afternoon so might not catch you but sounds like your getting to grips with it now.

Im glad you found the abandoned rooms although i didnt ever think they were that scary. Im not sure of your class/level now but when you get stronger you can head to the aggressor cellar ( there is one in plaza 1. left side of the ramp as you go up it to the exit to plaza 2 ) which is a kind of natural progression before you head out in to the big wide world.

A word to the wise at this point. you will need some force resist and some pierce resist (you can buy armour that will add to this) and you will need to be careful because they can hurt you. Also when you kill an aggressor or an aggressor captain they will some times drop the yellow bones (you probably have some implanted already) so pick them up and take them to crytons (plaza 1 top of the grav lifts above the medicare center) to sell. the BEST way to make some early credits unless someone has already been kind enough to give you a decent donation.


on a side note massive facepalm at people still using acronyms and abbreviations in a thread where the player is brand new. Is it just me whose able to empathise and help the guy out by describing things in an understandable manner?

[William Antrim]

He got a whistle stop tour of Plaza 1 last night.

Medicare - plus full explanation of medkits, recycling and healing.

Archer and Wesson - full explanation of low tech weaponry, a brief explanation of high tech weaponry. Put put vs PEW PEW essentially. He also got an explanation about ammo types, the differences between no slot ammo and slotted ammo also. He got a basic explanation of slots and mods too and grasped most of it pretty quickly.

Armour store - explanation that he should check there every few levels to see if there is more armour and to go for Kevlar armour because its good.

Crytons Tech Tools - explanation of most things tradeskill related. He got 2-3 new guns researched and built and a donation of around 35k credits to go along with.

Yos vendor in P1 - got an explanation about YOs - how he works and the fact that he is a shady character who will buy everything you want to sell.

He also got taken the Mutant Sewer in Plaza 1 and left there shooting Mutant Gunmen whilst screaming maniacally and burning away like a wild asteroid.

Loose wire and Live wire donated generously with his time and effort and some tosser called Virgil Earp pitched in a little tiny bit too.


How much of it goes in is another thing honestly as it can be quite daunting but he had Plaza 1 sewer to go at for a bit with a view to moving on elsewhere for more fun and exploration in the future. Hopefully it helped a little.

[fatbackwards]

So, Today I ended up exploring a bit more of Neocron.... visited Club Vernoique, Pussy Club, Bum Asylum, and found my way into the industrial sector... outzone... then outside.

Managed to arrive at a Simons Factory, or something... and I have to say, there's SO MANY SPIDERS IN THIS GAME.

Really... the outside is mostly spiders. Big hairy spider queens, Grand poisonous spiders, and I even met some sort of spider/mutant hybrid which creeped me the *$#@ out. No really, what happened to like... monsters from the Zoo? or like... anything from STALKER? Why there have to be so many spiders? ;_;

Anyways... so I ended up dying in two shots from an NPC named 'Wang Fitzgerald" (Yes... I got killed by the worst name ever). And found myself with a player named "Hotwheels" in his big Rhino tank, picking up GR's in the wasteland! Jesus, this planet is NOT small!

And dear God.... Tech Haven is just my favorite place ever now. I'm making a crafting toon just to live and work there. The music, the atmosphere, the ease of walking around.

Continuing on... we were on our way to the Military Base... and I finally saw pure Sci-Fi stuff!

Hoverbots.... Spiders.... Spiderbots.... Warbots.... DOY scouts (Which look like treaded vacuum cleaners), Cyborgs... Doom Rippers.... Unfortunatly, our trip was cut short... as someone from Protopharm started shooting at our already battered tank; and ended up blowing it up. My guide ended up having a connection issue, and... well... I was alone fighting a Doomripper and a Giant Raptor.

Oh, this reminded me... so, I have the ability to pick up a laser rifle now. It's the slowfire one. Is it worth it to change/construct to that, or keep the Archer Companion Rifle for a while longer?

[Torg]

you've wandered the spider kingdom, it seems. there are other animals in other parts of the world. worse ones.
laser rifles are really, really good. but it may be wise to use those dex-skillpoints for a little recycling (so you can make ammo and other supplies in the field, from loot junk) and to boost your agility before sinking those hard-earned points into tech combat, which is needed for those lasers. in the meantime street rifles are your best choice. and yes, you want to go to the military base next. either by car, or by foot. the easy route: is keep to the western border, and avoid those warbots (i told you. worse. in the north, there are deadly robot spiders, too. damn). good luck.