Deployment #2 - Discussion

[Torg]

.... but you will be able to chose in a panel of 5 or 10 weapons that will have the same DPM. But with another poking template you could choose in another panel of weapons...

of course i can see your point but i'd prefer the semi-random numbers of current neocron over of platforms of equal DPM.

[RogerRamjet]

I can see a question coming. Why using HT weapons if some LT (low tech) have the same DPM? That's one I ask me.

I was going to pose the question myself but you beat me too it. Is that the issue with the WoC weapons for instance? They are all "lotech", so this lets people save a whole bunch of points from speccing hitech and using the most powerful weapons ingame, and boosting the relevant points (pistol/rifle) and having room to spare for agility. I always thought "lotech" weapons should be <tl100, hence lotech rare parts.

[Cursed Shadow]

Guys... No Lowtech weapons that I know of can produce Energy damage. That should be reason enough.

People will be using different weapons to utilize different damage types, frequencies, ranges or DoT/Other effects in the future from the sounds of things, rather than because Weapon A is MUCH BETTER than Weapon B.

Do remember, the damage curve is just the first phase, to establish a damage basis which works for most weapons. Once that is accurate, they can begin tweaking certain items in certain directions.

[Bragi]

Do remember, the damage curve is just the first phase, to establish a damage basis which works for most weapons. Once that is accurate, they can begin tweaking certain items in certain directions.

Quite. Little is being taken for granted, so viewing this first stage as if nothing else will change would be misleading.

I was going to pose the question myself but you beat me too it. Is that the issue with the WoC weapons for instance? They are all "lotech", so this lets people save a whole bunch of points from speccing hitech and using the most powerful weapons ingame, and boosting the relevant points (pistol/rifle) and having room to spare for agility. I always thought "lotech" weapons should be <tl100, hence lotech rare parts.

A long time ago the were no low tech weapons above around TL93 (the pain easer). The effecitve price for higher TL was the TC. More low-techs wanted to be added, but it was realised that, like you say, there would be no point using a TL100 high-tech over a TL100 low-tech, as you would loose out due to the TC requirement.
As such TC was added to the performance of high-tech weapons (mainly focused on frequency to maintain DPM) so that in theory the performance of a weapon of a given TL would be the same regardless of whether it was high- or low-tech.

P.S. As far as I am aware, low tech rare parts are for items under TL90, so most low tech rares never were 'lowtech'. Items under TL100 do only require 5 parts however.

P.P.S. Slightly more on topic, can we get some more test results? I have gathered a lot myself and from you guys but I need more to analyse.

[Petalustig]

@ Bragi:

I tested it on the NPCs so it is the dmg per hit. The Freq is from the info Screen.

And here the next one.

Test Char:

Monk, PSU 218, APU: 200, FCS: 125, PSR: 50

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k5aa5zpbv...G%20Output.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pfz2pjeiei...Output%202.pdf

The TL 70 Spell makes the most dmg of all. All tested on the NPCs again. Some Spells doesn't make any dmg on the NPCs but i can kill Dr. Frankenstein with it. In the first Picture you can see the list with the spells which doesn't make any dmg. The second one is without them, so that the curve is much better to see.

Nice work Japy i <3 you

[greatunknown]

TEST:
Melee tank

Notes: Low resistances, almost purely offensive (with PA)

Resistances:

(from skills: 8 pierce, 40 +16 force, 53/40/60 +27/15 fire/energy/xray/poison)

Offensive:

243 melee,
85 wpn lore,
86 athletics,
51 endurance,
93 agility,
102 tech combat

Target: Jericko dummy

Weapons: (from highest TL rare to lowest) note: damage is damage dealt to 127/127 dummy /// freq is shots per min

TL 115 - Devils grace - 177 damage, 77 freq, DPM 13629
TL 112 - Paw of Bear - 170 damage, 81 freq, DPM 13770
TL 110 - Thunderbolt - 122 damage, 76 freq, DPM 9272
TL 108 - Zsusun - 187 damage, 74 freq, DPM 13838
TL 108 - Hurler King - 125 damage, 125 freq, DPM 15625
TL 104 - The Dentist - 122 damage, 127 freq, DPM 15494
TL 100 - Blade of Ceres- 199 damage, 64 freq, DPM 12736
TL 97 - Vein Ripper - 137 damage, 94 freq, DPM 12878
TL 94 - Peacemaker - 192 damage, 69 freq, DPM 13248
TL 82 - Perforator - 107 damage, 115 freq, DPM 12305
TL 80 - Paw of Tiger - 142 damage, 83 freq, DPM 11786

Results:

The Dentist and Hurler king at TL 104/108 were far ahead (almost 2k+). Reason: high base damage, high freq
Thunderbolt was 2.5k+ lower than all (yet is only one of TWO high tech melee)

Conclusion:

Melee weapons are fairly balanced, but still deal a lot less damage than Rifles, HC, Pistol.

With an average of about 12k-15k, over 60 seconds, that is (12k / 60 ) 200 to (15k / 60) 250 damage per second assuming all successful hits

[RogerRamjet]

A long time ago the were no low tech weapons above around TL93 (the pain easer). The effecitve price for higher TL was the TC. More low-techs wanted to be added, but it was realised that, like you say, there would be no point using a TL100 high-tech over a TL100 low-tech, as you would loose out due to the TC requirement.
As such TC was added to the performance of high-tech weapons (mainly focused on frequency to maintain DPM) so that in theory the performance of a weapon of a given TL would be the same regardless of whether it was high- or low-tech.

Does the disparity between the First Love (which I use) and a WoC AK come from the bonus of it being a WoC weapon in that case?

[Bragi]

Does the disparity between the First Love (which I use) and a WoC AK come from the bonus of it being a WoC weapon in that case?

In theory. There's also the fact that many weapon types and even individual weapons are inherently under- or over-powered.

@greatunknown:
Cheers, pretty much what I have been getting too.
The thunderbolt is a DoT weapon, so it will only do about 75% of it's intended DPM currently. Once we get the instant damage weapons sorted, we will address the rest.

[Cursed Shadow]

Please can someone ensure that the TL90 Energy Soulblade, which is dropped by The Apparition is tested.
It is a TL90 Laserblade.

To my knowledge it was not in the vendor lists last time I checked.

[Bifrost]

Please can someone ensure that the TL90 Energy Soulblade, which is dropped by The Apparition is tested.
It is a TL90 Laserblade.

To my knowledge it was not in the vendor lists last time I checked.

There is an NPC giving out the TL90 Energy Soulblade. Look for Mr Soulblade near the Melee weapons vendors.

[Cursed Shadow]

Yay for Mr Soulblade.

@greatunknown can you test this with your setup so that it is in-line with your other results?
Also, as an FYI you have missed the Electric Tempest from your tests.
http://www.techhaven.org/db/showitem/2428.html

I can then test all of the above of @greatunknown with a different setup and see if the same results ring true

[Jabal]

Have you see this bragi ??

More pistol test :
Spy PC: 178 WEP: 125 TECH: 133

FREEZER PISTOL :
-TL 102 : damage : 197 per hit , Freq : 63
-TL 61 : damage : 155 , Freq : 66
-TL 40 : damage : 127 , Freq : 66

LOW TECH PISTOL :
-TL 88 wyat earp : damage : 214 , Freq : 85
-TL 42 wasteland : damage : 162 , Freq : 75 ( low tech seems to cap freqency at less than rare)
-TL 26 street model : damage : 126 , Freq : 75

SMG :
-TL 91 liberator : damage : 82*4 , Freq : 392
-TL 63 : damage : 71*4 , Freq : 399
-TL 38 : damage : 56*4 , Freq : 399

NAIL GUN :
-TL 107 craftsman : damage : 251 , Freq : 70
-TL 31 : damage : 155 , Freq : 60
-TL 17 : damage : 111 , Freq : 60

GATLING PISTOL :
-TL 110 : damage : 82*4 , Freq : 411 ( mag size : 32)
-TL 77 : damage : 74*4 , Freq : 399 ( mag size : 28)
-TL 59 : damage : 66*4 , freq : 399 ( mag size : 28)

what you want exactly ?? more test on other TL or you need some test on rifle ???

[Bragi]

what you want exactly ?? more test on other TL or you need some test on rifle ???

The other weapon types for pistol would be good (plasma, pulse laser, laser, fusion etc.) for the moment.

[Jabal]

test char :
spy PC: 195 , TC: 150 WEP: 125 ( fa and jeriko is fa i have the bonus)

nota : in all weapon tested the sheet give me more dammage than i do at the doll.
weapons is not modded .

PULSE LASER PISTOL :

-tl 103 slasher : 147 per hit *3 ( for one shoot) freq : 147/min
-tl92 : 139 per hit*3 , freq : 149
-tl64 : 116 per hit*3 , freq: 150

PLASMA PISTOL :

-tl 100 judge : 153 per hit *2 , freq 212
-tl 80 : 141 per hit *2 , freq 218
-tl 68 : 131 per hit *2 , freq 218

LASER PISTOL :

-tl 105 beam of hell : 270 per hit , freq 81
-tl 75 tangent epic : 184 per hit *2 , freq 120
-tl 65 jordan spécial: 228 per hit , freq 75

RAYGUN :

-tl 108 last hope : 324 per hit ( at 5 meter aprox) freq : 72
-tl 86 blacksun : 302 per hit ( at 5 meter aprox) freq : 80
-tl 74 : 275 per hit ( at 5 m aprox) freq : 80

voila , for a first run.

in fact i have made all the pistol with a rare in it .

[Bragi]

In that case, rifles would be good.