Deployment #1 - Discussion

[William Antrim]

Ok thats fine. Easily tested. I will design a format for us to use Brawl. It will be easy as long as we just use two constants. The attacker and defender I mean.

If it is a ratio they want then thats easy to get.

We need to change resists possibly (50-75-100) base energy

Damage subskill (100-150-200) Pistol combat, Rifle combat and Heavy combat.

then we just record the numbers of damage that we get at each value with each combination. Provided the victim is at full health all the way through we will end up with a slab of data they can analyse.


This ought to make things easier to understand and follow.

Bragi do you want excel spreadsheets submitting or posts on here? It would be easier to forward it on a spreadsheet tbh.

[Bragi]

If it is a ratio they want then thats easy to get.

Yes, sorry, that's what we're after (you know what it's like when you forget a word ).

Bragi do you want excel spreadsheets submitting or posts on here? It would be easier to forward it on a spreadsheet tbh.

I really don't mind. Which ever is easiest.

[DER_julu]

Ok thats fine. Easily tested. I will design a format for us to use Brawl. It will be easy as long as we just use two constants. The attacker and defender I mean.

If it is a ratio they want then thats easy to get.

We need to change resists possibly (50-75-100) base energy

Damage subskill (100-150-200) Pistol combat, Rifle combat and Heavy combat.

then we just record the numbers of damage that we get at each value with each combination. Provided the victim is at full health all the way through we will end up with a slab of data they can analyse.


This ought to make things easier to understand and follow.

Bragi do you want excel spreadsheets submitting or posts on here? It would be easier to forward it on a spreadsheet tbh.

send me those too, please

[Doc Holliday]

I meant most people use Energy Modded weapons to break through the Energy 'Armor' of Regants monsters. That is why Energy is commonplace there.

I was simply trying to point this out in order to correct Agent L who seemed to think 'armor breaking' was a general thing which once broken made all damage (regardless of type) higher, whereas there are different 'armor breaks' possible per resistance type: Energy, Fire, Poison, Xray, Force, Piercing.

Based on this, if I break the Regant's boss armor using a TT Epic which is High Voltage modded, it will not improve the damage of an AK against that monster, instead the Piercing resistance of the monster would need to be reduced.

Right. Thats been in existence since 2.something because the sluggers etc are highly resistant to fire damage. This is evident by the small ticks on the boss aoe.

and i thought i was missing something.

Im going back in to my cave now.

[DER_julu]

while testing, i noticed that modding on the desperado seems to be broken - regardless of ammotype, it ALWAYS does PRC-damage... (see zip);

2nd edit: there IS an issue. ammo-fx only change after a relog or when switching weapons. if i reload my rifle with a different ammo-type, and shoot it right away, the correct info shows up in the info-view, the damage-logs state otherwise, though...

[DER_julu]

ok, after a bit of testing, i zipped the various logfiles for you folks to download.

tested damageprogression on a PE with various assault-rifles, laserrifles, pulselasers and rayguns with and without ammomods.
PE was a quickly built high-tl-build, the testdummy was a capped tank (75 in all resists, no implants, no armor);

all files should be here...
assault rifles
laserrifles
pulselasers
rayguns
PE character sheet

hope that helps...

[Cursed Shadow]

Rayguns throws a 404

Should be: Rayguns

[Bragi]

2nd edit: there IS an issue. ammo-fx only change after a relog or when switching weapons. if i reload my rifle with a different ammo-type, and shoot it right away, the correct info shows up in the info-view, the damage-logs state otherwise, though...

Does this 'fix' the desperado or does it still continue to do pure piercing?

[DER_julu]

switching weapons or relogging fixes it, until you load a new type of ammo. then you're stuck with the last one, until you relogg or switch weapon...

[Brawl]

I starting collecting data on all pistols, to do this im using my spy as damage dealer. I have set him up to run 200 pc, 150 wep, and 100 tc. Shooting at my tank from full hp no armor and 75 resists to all, taking 1 click to the head only i.e single shot or burst depending on the weapon im using.

Now...

Im trying to calculate DPM few questions regarding this...

For single shot weapons is it as easy as taking the average damage output and multiplyinhg that value by the total shot/min value in the 'show info' on said weapon? i.e 75/min (+26)

for example wyatt earp dealing 74 damage per shot average, multiply that by info screen display of shot/min which is 85 (+31)...
74*116=8584 DPM ??

Thats assuming the figures on 'show info' are correct? or am i totally wrong?

Also asuming i may be right for weapons like smg and gatling pistols which fire 4 shots per click do i divide the damage output for that burst by 4 to get average damage per bullet and use same math to calculate DPM? or im i totally messed up here haha?

Im no mathematician and this is hurting my brain help me please, idealy going to plot of graph of results if i can get some semi accreate figures.

[Bragi]

Also asuming i may be right for weapons like smg and gatling pistols which fire 4 shots per click do i divide the damage output for that burst by 4 to get average damage per bullet and use same math to calculate DPM? or im i totally messed up here haha?

No, that sounds about right. Just make sure that you record figures when all shots in a burst hit.

However, remember that reloading time will decrease a weapon's DPM. A weapon with an rpm of 120 may fire two rounds per second within the clip duration, but will not fire 120 rounds per minute.

Im no mathematician and this is hurting my brain help me please, idealy going to plot of graph of results if i can get some semi accreate figures.

A graph may be of use. The DPM values you have calculated are not the base values we are working with due to sub-skill effects and reloading time, but the curve you get may provide some insight into how the weapons are performing.

I should point out also, that the clip and ammo pack size changes we meant to implement do not seem to have made it to Sparta (we are trying to find out why). Generally these are not an issue (and are irrelevant when looking at per hit damage values), but they may skew DPM.

[Brawl]

No, that sounds about right. Just make sure that you record figures when all shots in a burst hit.

However, remember that reloading time will decrease a weapon's DPM. A weapon with an rpm of 120 may fire two rounds per second within the clip duration, but will not fire 120 rounds per minute.


A graph may be of use. The DPM values you have calculated are not the base values we are working with due to sub-skill effects and reloading time, but the curve you get may provide some insight into how the weapons are performing.

I should point out also, that the clip and ammo pack size changes we meant to implement do not seem to have made it to Sparta (we are trying to find out why). Generally these are not an issue (and are irrelevant when looking at per hit damage values), but they may skew DPM.

Ok i was hoping that reload time was accounted for in the shot/min, ok that sucks. I have recorded all damage from bursts but weapons like plasma pistols have a wierd range of damage and i can only go on a average with is a little vague.

I have noticed however looking at data collected so far that single shot weapons of similar type are scaling quite nicely, and also the xbow is hitting like a steam train compared to weapons of same TL range. Like 246 damage with a shot freq 84/min making it over 20k per min minus the reload. Bit saucey!

I'll crack on you given me some things to think about thanks.

[Bragi]

I have noticed however looking at data collected so far that single shot weapons of similar type are scaling quite nicely, and also the xbow is hitting like a steam train compared to weapons of same TL range. Like 246 damage with a shot freq 84/min making it over 20k per min minus the reload. Bit saucey!

The clip size of the xbow was meant to be reduced significantly. As the clip size changes have not made it to Sparta, the xbow is currently doing a DPM much higher than intended.

[DER_julu]

so. what's the ideal method of testing ?
should i rather calculate the DPM, work with the damage logs, i'm pretty unsure how to proceed (don't wanna waste anybodies time with damage logs if they make no sense );

[Doc Holliday]

KISS.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.


Record individual damage numbers scored with what ever weapons. Include raw resist numbers for defender and attackers subskill attributes.

Raw data is better than trying to create your own templates which may or may not work well. Thats what i would do.

ps. Hi (I miss you )