1. #76
    Registered User Agent L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulx View Post
    I plead for 10-30-s Countdown timer after entering a Zone b4 able to join the next, but it shouldnt affect normal playing, so smaller zones will Need a smaller countdown.
    This will kill people in wastelands so it does affect normal playing very much.

    Typical scenario: You zone in wastes (a very large zone), look around and see 6 Hoverbots above you.
    How it works so far: You zone back and seek another entry point.
    Your idea: You're dead.

    This is also what happens when zoning from OZ station to the Outzone, because of the Dragon Wrath Members often left near zone line. So above scenario applies for city sectors as well.


    Mind that if you travel diagonally on a quad you also change zones very fast. If you zone in a corner, there is about 1s between zoning.
    Last edited by Agent L; 04-09-13 at 11:45.

  2. #77
    Registered User Agent L's Avatar
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    Idea: ban some buffs (eg shields/def/absorber, resist and combat boosters, *maybe* heals) from safezones, just like normal weapons. (Maybe only foreign cast) This would certainly fix the "hop into safety to recieve buffs from afk ppu" problem.

    What are cons of such ban?

  3. #78
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    I still think suggestions need to be specifically oriented to a PvP Situation. The topic is about Zone Whoring, which to my understanding is specifically: getting into a fight, then zoning back and forth repeatedly, or into a safe zone to avoid death.

    I do not think people should be getting wires crossed and applying any behaviour discussed so far to standard game play such as crossing the wastes, unless you are specifically referring to a PvP scenario. This change should affect PvP only, not casual game behaviour such as driving through the wastes or running around in OZ.

    What there has not been enough discussion on, is Outpost Fighting behavior, and whether people believe Trivaldi's suggestion of a PvP Flag would remedy the situation. For example, should PPUs be vulnerable for these 'PvP' flags or not. (Say if they Damage boost, De-buff or Anti-heal another runner)

    If anyone is reading this and simply agrees with a suggestion that has been made (and therefore doesn't post), please reply to let us know which suggestions are agreeable to you, that helps everyone and guides this thread forward in the right direction.

  4. #79
    Registered User Agent L's Avatar
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    I think we've skipped the most important part of any problem-solving process: identifying problems. There is lot of confusion even about what "zonewhoring" is. Can we prepare exhaustive list of behaviors considered zonewhoring? Then we could work it one by one and analyze solutions in context of every scenario.

    Some of them I believe are not even confined to the zone line: like holstering a weapon and hiding behind a copbot. This was sidestepped by removing most cops from PP - which resulted in ppl running to the nearest cop: in next zone.

    Now if generic solution would be cops shooting everyone with PvP flag, it'd also apply to cops holding guard on Plaza side of PP/Plaza zoneline - no more zoning malluses necessary here other than stream of hot plasma from CPR.

    To complete the chaos and digressions in this post I have one simple and ready to use solution: post Storms on PP side of zoneline.
    I believe cops were stationed there at some point in time, and got removed exactly because players wanted to hug the zoneline.

  5. #80
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    lets be serious: is there any real problem with zone-laming outside of outposts (underground entrance)? in fact anyone complaining about lost kills because someone else jumped back into plaza 1 safety should be pointed and laughed at (my opinion). if you want to duel sans zone-laming, dont go to plaza 2. problem solved. and if someone else flees from you in the wastes by constant frequent zone-crossing, he or she might just be better than you when it comes to using game mechanics. i think we should concentrate on op fights and how to improve them.

  6. #81
    lone Wolf ulx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent L View Post
    This will kill people in wastelands so it does affect normal playing very much.

    Typical scenario: You zone in wastes (a very large zone), look around and see 6 Hoverbots above you.
    How it works so far: You zone back and seek another entry point.
    Your idea: You're dead.
    Mind that if you travel diagonally on a quad you also change zones very fast. If you zone in a corner, there is about 1s between zoning.
    This is also what happens when zoning from OZ station to the Outzone, because of the Dragon Wrath Members often left near zone line. So above scenario applies for city sectors as well.
    Its not like i didnt take that into consideration, Yes, there are dangerous zones, if you are on foot you might still die and imo thats tough luck ppl have to deal with, with a vehicle, ur even better off just stepping on it than turning the car (takes forever) and zoning back.
    And how often did ppl get stuck in synch on a vehicle when driving diagonal with 2 or 3 sudden synchs...how about u just adjust your driving? Too tough is it? Driving less diagonal? xD
    Or just free vehicles from the timer, its impossible to zone whore with a vehicle anyway xD
    But still, i dont see your point, i havent died yet in OZ too and i actually own noob apps in OZ1. Especially if the wrath members are at the subway stairway the next corner to safety is not far. Its not like theyre spread all over OZ xD

    edit: And this will improve opfighting since ppl have to give at least a 30 seconds fight

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by ulx View Post
    I plead for 10-30-s Countdown timer after entering a Zone b4 able to join the next, but it shouldnt affect normal playing, so smaller zones will Need a smaller countdown.
    Spies shouldnt be able to Zone stealthed, and there should be a 10s wear-off after using stealth b4 able to synch.
    This would also fix a few grinding exploits (like running past the small Mobs at a cave entry to get to the very last room in Caves to drone the bossmobs and would make it nearly impossible to get to Doy Tunnels lvl 3 by stealthing!)
    NO wiping of any Buffs, because aoeing UG will take even more fun out of OPing and will always benefit the Group with the most ppus!

    There should be one exception for Rejoining Sectors.

    Runners should be able to rejoin the Zone they came from if the Zone he/she is currently in is a safezone. After entering the pvp Zone he has to stay there until the timer runs out again.

    edit: Besides, since Opfighting Teams have to Stay like 30 seconds outside of the UG, times between hacking layers should be either set to 90s or 120s. I think that will also allow more and faster show-ups of the attacked Groups since the op isnt already gone b4 theyre set up. Maybe there will even be less ninjaing...
    These suggestions go much further than addressing zonewhoring and negatively impact the rest of the game, reading your post it seems like you'd prefer the zones didn't exist and are trying to force people to behave how they would if there were no zones at all. There are several problems with this, one being that if there weren't any zones you'd be able to see what dangers lie 10 feet in front of you and if you're trying to avoid death wouldn't go there to begin with. Another problem is every time you try to zone and run into this zoning block timer you're thrown out of the game and it all starts to seem plastic, in other words it makes no sense at all and breaks suspension of disbelief, not to mention how annoying this would be while trying to travel in the city or out in the wastes.

    The no zoning while stealthed idea obviously hurts solo PvE and spies a lot, this sounds like something you'd hear a year ago when drone exploiting was still possible and prevalent, it no longer is. PvE is messed up at the moment so its best to save suggestions that would drastically change things like this until after the team have gotten around to balancing PvE. It's no good looking at how PvE is right now and using that to base your suggestions because everything you see now can and likely will be changed, let's see what the team have planned for this first.

    Bottom line, this thread is about zonewhoring only, maybe I'm misunderstanding that term but I believe it applies only to people zoning constantly in PvP to escape death. If you want to talk about PvE and have suggestions I wouldn't do it right now but if you must, then make another thread for it.

  8. #83
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    The problem is right now zone line whoring is an essential part of pvp, people might not like it but lets imagine a world with no zone line whoring...

    You zone out to find a full OP team of enemies waiting for you and die obviously VERY quickly. You think to yourself, should I go back and try to kill some? NO cos you have no chance to escape really

    You go for the intention of having some fun fights, you go out once, fight for 2mins and die, you then spend 15-20mins getting pokes rebuying armour and waiting for SI before finally going back for another 2mins of fighting OR you win and wait 20 mins for the other guy to get back for another 2mins of fighting.

    As for ppus at zone lines... well thats a issue that needs fixing in an entirely different thread which to put it simply would be based around ppu buffs being about 50% less effective (or perhaps even less) when used on other people. Yes I know that ppu buffs used on themself already are better but its still to much when used on other people. As I've stated a million times if you have a 2v2 fight, 2 tanks vs 1 tank 1 ppu the tank and ppu will win about 90% of the time as the tank with the ppu will take almost no damage and the other 2 will be taking a TON of damage thanks to damage booster. In a perfect world a 2v2 fight 2 tanks vs 1 tank 1 ppu would be a 50/50 affair. To put it bluntly, the outcome of fights right now are almost completely decided by the number of ppus per side. this is dumb.
    "You're fat, and you look like you should be, but you're not."

  9. #84
    lone Wolf ulx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatmankh View Post
    These suggestions go much further than addressing zonewhoring and negatively impact the rest of the game, reading your post it seems like you'd prefer the zones didn't exist and are trying to force people to behave how they would if there were no zones at all. There are several problems with this, one being that if there weren't any zones you'd be able to see what dangers lie 10 feet in front of you and if you're trying to avoid death wouldn't go there to begin with. Another problem is every time you try to zone and run into this zoning block timer you're thrown out of the game and it all starts to seem plastic, in other words it makes no sense at all and breaks suspension of disbelief, not to mention how annoying this would be while trying to travel in the city or out in the wastes.

    The no zoning while stealthed idea obviously hurts solo PvE and spies a lot, this sounds like something you'd hear a year ago when drone exploiting was still possible and prevalent, it no longer is. PvE is messed up at the moment so its best to save suggestions that would drastically change things like this until after the team have gotten around to balancing PvE. It's no good looking at how PvE is right now and using that to base your suggestions because everything you see now can and likely will be changed, let's see what the team have planned for this first.

    Bottom line, this thread is about zonewhoring only, maybe I'm misunderstanding that term but I believe it applies only to people zoning constantly in PvP to escape death. If you want to talk about PvE and have suggestions I wouldn't do it right now but if you must, then make another thread for it.
    Yes, my Solution is a blunt one.
    And yes, you mostly dont know whats waiting after a Zone line, welcome to Neocron.
    The Problem with zoning and the timer has been mentioned, why the f*ck do u bring it up again?

    Spies with an Obliterator can literally go anywhere. Caves like Doy Tunnels ARENT MEANT TO BE SOLO'ed! Get that in ur head
    besides, ist just sth that would get fixed along the way but it is rather meant to even the chances a just a Little if he has to wait 10 seconds after stealth wore off b4 zoning, but yes, it will be a big bother to all the gimped pvp Setups with just a jones stealth! (and i find that a good Thing=P)

    Those were great times when ppl had open fights=P

  10. #85
    lone Wolf ulx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO666 View Post
    The problem is right now zone line whoring is an essential part of pvp, people might not like it but lets imagine a world with no zone line whoring...

    You zone out to find a full OP team of enemies waiting for you and die obviously VERY quickly. You think to yourself, should I go back and try to kill some? NO cos you have no chance to escape really

    You go for the intention of having some fun fights, you go out once, fight for 2mins and die, you then spend 15-20mins getting pokes rebuying armour and waiting for SI before finally going back for another 2mins of fighting OR you win and wait 20 mins for the other guy to get back for another 2mins of fighting.

    As for ppus at zone lines... well thats a issue that needs fixing in an entirely different thread which to put it simply would be based around ppu buffs being about 50% less effective (or perhaps even less) when used on other people. Yes I know that ppu buffs used on themself already are better but its still to much when used on other people. As I've stated a million times if you have a 2v2 fight, 2 tanks vs 1 tank 1 ppu the tank and ppu will win about 90% of the time as the tank with the ppu will take almost no damage and the other 2 will be taking a TON of damage thanks to damage booster. In a perfect world a 2v2 fight 2 tanks vs 1 tank 1 ppu would be a 50/50 affair. To put it bluntly, the outcome of fights right now are almost completely decided by the number of ppus per side. this is dumb.
    Alright, ur actually telling me that you nor your clan ever sends a Scout first b4 going to the OP and die? Well thats actually not a Problem of my solution but your Problem not to collect Intel b4 joining the fight, so lmao!
    Spies would still be able to stealth away (right after zoning out) and Report to the clan, while they can decide to fight or not. Even if the Scout dies he can tell his ppl about how many ppl are there. cmon, thats Basic knowledge in NC.
    And Dont tell me u e.g. liked being just 4 against 10 just because u could always Zone back to the UG? Do u call that Fun? srsly?!
    And as i said b4 dont touch buffs. Removing them after zoning or anything similar will just make aoe'ing more common, u guys so hot for being aoed in p2 or at any OP when leaving the UG? Gone mad?!

    Seems like only carebears and/or griefers talking here who want to Keep things as is.
    Zone whoring is not an essential Feature. Ist just a nowadays commonly used Thing which got even favoured by several changes they did to the game way back

    edit: Others having buttplug ppus/Medics is not only an issue in this game. Just get your own buttplug or deal with it...

  11. #86
    Registered User Agent L's Avatar
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    In current situation (removal of turrets), zonewhoring the UG is pretty much the only advantage left for defenders...
    So is it really a problem, or just a makeshift solution to entirely different problem?

  12. #87

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    my english is bad i hope ist same imprtantly with german

    da ich finde, dass man den runnern oder in diesem fall den flüchtenden nicht die Möglichkeit nehmen DARF wege zu gehen oder wegzulaufen, wie die Zone zu verlassen.
    die zonegrenze oder auch gullideckel auszunutzen und sie in schleife zu benutzen sollte man anders zu unterbinden wissen.

    vielleicht hilft eine art sync-zähler, wenn man innerhalb 60 Sekunden 12 mal gezoned ist kann man für 10 Minuten die Zone nicht verlassen als strafe.

    da es so dazu kommen kann, dass sein verfolger ein sync mehr hatte zu anfang und ihn deshalb nicht verfolgen kann, sollte diese 10 Minuten sperre auch nur dann in kraft treten, wenn gleichzeitig sein Gegner im gleichen Sektor ist.

    ist allerdings sehr schwer umzusetzen. eventuell hätte ich da noch eine Idee.
    das Problem ist ja nicht, zum flüchten den sync zu benutzen um Richtung safezone zu flüchten. sondern innerhalb kürzester zeit so oft wie möglich zu syncen damit das life hochregg. eine strafe könnte sein, dass nach 12x syncen innerhalb 60 Sekunden der Transport auf null fällt und Agilität und atlethic ebenfalls für 5 Minuten auf null fällt und man zusätzlich in de rmitte des sectors (spawnpunkt) spawnt, man aber immernoch syncen kann.

    da das auch alles sehr schwierig ist würd ich nach dem shema (Brieftasche) gehen, 12 mal syncen binnen 60 Sekunden und eine Warnung zeigt an, dass pro weiteren sync der soullight um 1 fällt. nach 10 Minuten wird der negative Effekt natürlich aufgelöst. Bin mal gespannt wer sich damit ins minus schiesst.

    man könnte aber auch den sync den man überqueert hat für 30 Sekunden sperren und er kann einfach nicht zurück und wenn innerhalb 3 Minuten 4 mal die gleiche Zone grenze überqueert wurde kann man diese auch für ne Minute speren. da ist es halt schwierig, dass man nicht ausversehen den verfolger straft, das negativ soullight bestrafungs System fänd ich besser.

  13. #88

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    Mir ist noch eine gute Idee eingefallen.
    Angenommen man synct öfter als 30 mal innerhalb 3 Minuten, dann bekommst du einen soullight zähler.
    Das bekommst du als verfolger natürlich auch, da du den gejagten ja hinterherkommen willst aber du läufst als verfolger ja nicht Gefahr zu sterben.
    wenn also der verfolgte und der verfolger jeweils 50 mal syncen haben beide ein negativ soullight zähler von 50 und derjenige der stirbt, verliert dann 50 soullight, derjenige der verfolgt hat wird der negativ soullight zähler von 50 nach 10 Minuten wieder resettet.

    so kann man verhindern, dass der dominante jäger die gleichen Konsequenzen trägt wie der gejagte, der das sync-whoring ausnutzt.

  14. #89
    giggidi giggidi gooo Ghostface_Speak's Avatar
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    way too complicated,overthink this again
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  15. #90
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface_Speak View Post
    way too complicated,overthink this again
    what he said.

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