1. #16
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 2005
    Location
    Norfolk.
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    So now that you fixed neocron in two posts what are your thoughts on world peace? Seriously don't start losing your rag in this forum. Your ideas are being picked apart on purpose. We do not want another debacle like the current one. Your changes are bad. These are the reasons why.

    This is my opinion, whether you give two shits or not.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  2. #17

    Default

    Some ideas here are pretty interesting Though there is no much chances this is going to happen, indeed people won't leave teh idea of PPU/APU straight distinction.

    Would be awesome to see debuffing going to APU. Currently PPU are just insanely OP becasue of that.

    @William, you really should stop being a jerk like that, who cares if there was a thread talking about that already 3 years ago.
    With this kind of attitude you could post the similar shit on every topic. YES some stuff are redundant, and that's when you see 10 threads talking about the same subject that you know it needs work, not one big thread with 150 pages of flame.
    And I can't see a single thread where you don't flame people.

    This is my opinion, whether you care or not

  3. #18
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 2005
    Location
    Norfolk.
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Disagreeing logically is not flaming. It is spirited discussion. There is a huge difference. I don't need to swear to get my point across but thanks for the life coaching champ.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  4. #19
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Canyon, TH
    Posts
    833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Disagreeing logically is not flaming. It is spirited discussion. There is a huge difference. I don't need to swear to get my point across but thanks for the life coaching champ.
    all i hear from the community is "go back to nc1". because everything was better before. you just can't make this shit up. people long for nostalgia, i get it, i suppose that's the reason why i'm here too. but going back isn't exactly the opposite of what i'm proposing. everyone played hybrids back in the days because they were ridiculously op.

    all i'm saying is, that this isn't wow or your other typical holy trinity mmo. you do not need a dedicated healer class and being reliant on one is not necessarily good game design. especially if you don't stand a chance in pvp without one.

    i think we should TRY playing without pure ppus and decide later if that was a good idea or not. i know i can and want to play without them. many people agree that the most fun pvp lies in random encounters in the wastes, far off of ppu support.

    if you remove ppus from the game fights will get more intense and not drag on for hours on end were 5 ppus on each side keeps ressing everyone until one side finally brings down enough ppus on the other side that the fight can come to a close. i know that many people find pleasure in that for some inexplicable reason, but i certainly don't.

  5. #20
    Neocron Veteran Ascension's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    East Midlands, UK
    Posts
    3,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fremen View Post
    Would be awesome to see debuffing going to APU. Currently PPU are just insanely OP because of that.
    I'm not going to get involved in all the sniping and griping,

    All I'm going to say is that a scuffle at the battledome last night saw a PPU run over to us and start debuffing without any real concern. He was effectively in the middle of enemy camp and removing buffs.

    If an enemy APU (who had debuff) was to do the same he would be down in seconds.

    So I am all for APU to have debuff again. But then I'm biased towards the class

  6. #21
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 2005
    Location
    Norfolk.
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    8m Wow subscribers cant be wrong. Thats all I am saying on that matter.

    As for the balancing ppus out. Taking stuff away is no good for anyone. Adding more stuff to combat them makes everything more fun for everyone. Debuffing for example should be open to MORE classes, not less. If they gave melee shockers some form of shield breaker, or PE and Spies some kind of anti-shield nannite which worked well then you would see the balance shift from 500606 ppus and 2 fighters to lots of fighters.

    If half of your op fighting team can debuff the enemy then you bring that many debuffers. This is just the nature of the fight. If however those debuffers can also deal damage then you can start to think tactically about how many damage dealers you want doing damage and how many you want healing etc.

    Yeah a long time ago monks were OP and that time is long gone but once the classes get somewhat balanced across the board (and I firmly believe this will happen) other tools need to come into play for more classes to remove the dependence on ppus.


    The other thing youre fighting against is the win at all costs mentality of some nc players. The absolute need to have 56006070 ppus so that noone on their team dies. This attitude cannot be accounted for or forced to alter. It is just something that we have to live with. Or move to another FPS style game without healers.

    If you remove the healer class from Neocron then you move towards an FPS style game. I am all for this personally because I prefer the FPS style of game. I live for the fight.

    However looking at the long term future of nc and all the LE bashing threads and all the other stuff that has been rehashed around here in recent weeks (out of boredom, frustration or some other issue) the same bottom line always comes up. NC needs more players.

    In order for it to have more players you HAVE to appeal to the masses and make some concessions to your client base. If they want healers you have to provide them with them or the game will just become a stagnant mess like it was before the current team took over.

    I am pretty sure noone here wants that.


    Do you see the point I am trying to make a little clearer now?
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  7. #22
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Canyon, TH
    Posts
    833

    Default

    i see what you are trying to achieve but i think it's pointless. to succeed in this market you have to have you own identy. 8m wow players... well they play wow. they won't play neocron because it's similar to wow. if anything ppl will play nc because it's different. i do. i played a lot of wow, i had a lot of fun, i quit and came back to nc. removing ppu is the first step towards a less wow-esque game experience.

  8. #23
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    396

    Default

    I fully agree with ascension as giving APUs the antibuff would validate their presence at an opfight because at the moment unless you love the class they are pretty redundant.

    Removing the ppu would dramatically change the game and would turn it back into spy'o'cron because if there was no healing/supporting class everyone would use stealth to hide and heal and would makes tanks (dare i say even more) redundant at open world PvP fights

    as for enti Im really giving up having discussions with you, youd argue black is white then argue black is black so long as you argued

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    December 2004
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Posts
    578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    i see what you are trying to achieve but i think it's pointless. to succeed in this market you have to have you own identy. 8m wow players... well they play wow. they won't play neocron because it's similar to wow. if anything ppl will play nc because it's different. i do. i played a lot of wow, i had a lot of fun, i quit and came back to nc. removing ppu is the first step towards a less wow-esque game experience.
    I don't think it is a good idea to remove the PPU. For me it adds to the fun having a dedicated healer class. It just needs balancing. William's idea to remove debuffing from the PPU and give it to all other classes is great and worth a try.

    Even a MP FPS game like Battlefield 3 has a dedicated healer class that can resurrect the dead.

  10. #25
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Canyon, TH
    Posts
    833

    Default

    back to spyocron? you mean spies are not the most represented class in nc right now? we must play on different servers. stealth needs a fix. people need a way to break stealth. i think buffing other classes is the way to fix the spy problem. spies + ppus are the way op fights work atm. tanks are just distraction and pes are a rare breed indeed and apus are an afterthought of suicidal masochists.

    you do realize, that giving everyone antis will do one thing only... apus are targeted first. they already MELT on the battlefield as it is and are often targeted first, because they go down so easily. now think again, what your proposed change will do to them. i GUESS it won't help them?
    Last edited by eNTi; 11-06-13 at 13:25.

  11. #26
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    396

    Default

    you could give something akin to the psi-shield for APUs - im postulating wildly and not quite sure how it would work in game but if they had some sort of fire/energy/posion aura/shield (each for individual dmg that the apu does) working somewhere around the levels that a pe's psi shields lie this could offer more protection but make it only self cast

  12. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    December 2004
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Posts
    578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Load_HeavyLoad View Post
    ... but make it only self cast
    Self casts could be an general exception.

    This way the PPU would also be able to survive a bit and heal people.
    Last edited by Ivan Eres; 11-06-13 at 16:55.

  13. #28
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Canyon, TH
    Posts
    833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Load_HeavyLoad View Post
    you could give something akin to the psi-shield for APUs - im postulating wildly and not quite sure how it would work in game but if they had some sort of fire/energy/posion aura/shield (each for individual dmg that the apu does) working somewhere around the levels that a pe's psi shields lie this could offer more protection but make it only self cast
    still... you will have to make those shield pretty powerful so that they are not simply overwritten by ppu spells. then you have to think about the psi pool. if everyone can anti, the shields will probably be targetable too. apu will do even more running and less damage than before.

    atm you have ppus that buff spies who deal more damage than any other class, can take a beating just like a tank while shielded, have a very high run speed and the best (easymode) aim of all classes, because they got the highest int to put enough into wep to hit even when running. the hit box is smaller too and to top it all off they just stealth away when their invulnerability wears off.

    without ppus spies would fall like flies or would have to resort to better movement for pistol spies or go back to where they came from... range. no more close quarter one shot wonders without risk.

  14. #29
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    396

    Default

    why not make them like nanites and not stack with ppu buffs?

    if ppu buffs are self cast only then heal would definitely need a boost

  15. #30
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    687

    Default

    Just gonna throw this there as you seem to be mentioning pve, you do realise that it is by no means a simple fix to adjust a few mob's damage and apu's are viable.
    Since 2.2 they do triple the damage they used to (when apu's were last viable), and while runners got their health boosted to match, the fact that resists pretty much haven't worked since means apu's have no chance in surviving against some mobs. This issue is made worse by the fact apu's got their damage out put nerfed in to the ground.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •