1. #1

    Default more ideas for apus plz

    hey all ive been reading the posts the last couple of days and noticed not many people have apu ideas. So I want to know what u lot think about maby stacking damage like dev on spells again or higher freq on weapons maby more survivorbilty and anti buff coming back to apus or even a woc weapon/spell, or even take off the aiming radicle for more damage plz post more ideas so the devs can read and get ideas from u guys, Or have I missed a post that people are talking about apus :P
    Last edited by nascarr; 09-06-13 at 14:50.

  2. #2

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    APUs can dish out good damage, so thats not the problem. They simply die too quick. I guess my approach would be to buff APU armor. Not sure if that would be enough to increase their survivability.

    Also APUs should get the anti back to give them a purpose in PVP beyond dealing damage, while relieving the PPUs of yet another spell to carry.

  3. #3
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Do a search LOL. Go back a few years not just a few weeks. Since the start of 2.2 there have been umpteen threads on the subject. If it is just a case of learning to use the search functions then trust me its easy.

    Jack apus don't dish out good damage. They lack in every single area of every skillset. In PVE they dont have the damage or the range. In PVP they have endless issues.

    Ascension can wax lyrical on the subject, I will save him the pleasure. But really there are already a million threads on the subject.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post

    Jack apus don't dish out good damage.
    Well from my perspective as unbuffed (how I prefer to play) pistol spy they do. In OP fights this might look different of course. If you take OP fights as basis for the analysis and you increase the damage APUs will kinda insta kill spies. Just my two cents.

    Since I dont know much about monks I will shut up now and leave that for the devs and players to decide and test on sparta.

  5. #5
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    1. remove the class distinction between apu and ppu. merge the two different skills to gpu (general psi user!)
    2. buff low+mid range ppu spells considerably,
    3. nerf high level ppu spells considerably,
    4. make psi lances long range with high damage and low frequency with the following pattern:
      1. energy: very long range, very low frequency,
      2. fire: medium range, medium frequency,
      3. poison: low range, high frequency,
    5. make halos do less damage, add stacks,
    6. throw away bolt spells or make them do funny stuff,
    7. the rare spells should behave differently:
      1. poison: halo, low range, high frequency, adds stacks
      2. fire: beam, medium range, high frequency, high single damage
      3. lighting: bolt, medium range, medium frequency, splits to multiple a
      4. frostation: lance, high range, low frequency, inhibits stealth for x seconds

    just a few ideas.

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    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    As an unbuffed spy an APU will use fire against you. That is because you are a spy and you dont have much in the way of hp and fire resist really. That APU has a similar con set up to you and will roast your ass faster than you can roast his because he has no stealth. Well he should do.

    Dont wanna sound like a dick but that is a very very small part of how an APU works, being attacked by one I mean. There is an assload more to them than that.

    Enti your changes will thoroughly shaft the class even more than they are now. Just so you know. I would go into the details but it is late and I need to go to sleep soon.

    You would make PVE all but impossible if you nerfed ppus. That would lead to MASSIVE changes across the board just to balance one class in pvp. Not something I personally would advocate but hey, props for trying.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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    Well technically his changes could make them OP as hell as it would make them hybrids, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who rememvbers when every 4 out of 5 characters was a unkillable death machine hybrid...

    That said aye ppus being screwed would mean a big change needed for pve as well, not that I've ever liked the ppu as a class in general, it just seems to be a class designed to make fair fights not fair anymore
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  8. #8
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Not to mention funnelling damage types into range categories would make them a nightmare to level. No other class has this malus as ammo mods can be put in any weapon to change this.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  9. #9
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Not to mention funnelling damage types into range categories would make them a nightmare to level. No other class has this malus as ammo mods can be put in any weapon to change this.
    actually a apu levels mainly through barrels and i didn't touch them in my suggestions, but i guess that wasn't clear by my description. my ideas are based on the arbitrary number of useless spell (types) and the complete lack of meaningful options on an apu as well as his crap survivability. if this "new monk" fails or is overpowered depends mainly on numbers.

    why anyone thinks pve would be impossible without ppu is beyond me. if you do as i suggested (buffing low, mid range ppu spells) it will actually be easier to solo for all classes but tank. i never had ppu support for my tank when leveling and i never needed one. you don't need ppus unless you are a crap player.

    if you mean end game pve like doy tunnels and wb factgory, i suggest some changes in damage numbers from mobs. it's already perfectly viable to solo everywhere as a droner. it's all a numbers game.
    Last edited by eNTi; 10-06-13 at 09:42.

  10. #10
    Neocron Veteran Ascension's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    As an unbuffed spy an APU will use fire against you.
    Yup, unfortunately we have no choice than to use Fire, back in the day it used to be Holy Lighting. As a sole APU pvp, op war character I can advise you how painful it is to play. As you said, unlike a spy, when we're are the focus of attack we have no choice but to attempt to flee (usually resulting in death, when attacking, or wincing at your poison stack in the UG from the devs when defending), or pray that a PPU has got your back, and even this its not guaranteed.

    It's such a shame that given the array of different spell types, we have no choice but to use such a limited arsenal. In all honesty, I'd love to see HL give X-ray damage too.

    I'm currently at work, but will contribute to this thread further, later today.

  11. #11
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    actually a apu levels mainly through barrels and i didn't touch them in my suggestions, but i guess that wasn't clear by my description. my ideas are based on the arbitrary number of useless spell (types) and the complete lack of meaningful options on an apu as well as his crap survivability. if this "new monk" fails or is overpowered depends mainly on numbers.

    why anyone thinks pve would be impossible without ppu is beyond me. if you do as i suggested (buffing low, mid range ppu spells) it will actually be easier to solo for all classes but tank. i never had ppu support for my tank when leveling and i never needed one. you don't need ppus unless you are a crap player.

    if you mean end game pve like doy tunnels and wb factgory, i suggest some changes in damage numbers from mobs. it's already perfectly viable to solo everywhere as a droner. it's all a numbers game.
    There are so many problems with this post I do not know where to start.

    1. Barrels are used in regants alone - to be balanced they (APUs) need more levelling spots, everything needs to be taken into account. They need to have the option to go EVERYWHERE everyone else does.

    2. Levelling a tank vs levelling an apu is like comparing apples to oranges.

    3. soloing an area as a droner does not make pve balanced. What do Droners have to do with Monks?

    4. sweeping generalisations do not really help fix the problem.


    You would have to redesign the entirety of PVE if you got rid of pure PPUs. Everything would need to change in every cave/tunnel/mc5/warbot factory etc. The only thing remotely balanced would be the open world mobs (warbots firemobs etc).

    I love the fact that you are trying to help but please think about what you actually post and how it will affect the REST of the WORLD!
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  12. #12
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    There are so many problems with this post I do not know where to start.

    1. Barrels are used in regants alone - to be balanced they (APUs) need more levelling spots, everything needs to be taken into account. They need to have the option to go EVERYWHERE everyone else does.
    apus go to regants, because they can farm insane amounts of xp. you can use barrels in caves as well. there aren't that many high level spots to farm xp tbh. i've leveled my apu in aggi cellar, mb bunker and later in regants. it's very easy to get tons of xp. only problem is survivability.

    if you read carefully you will see, that my changes actually make it possible for apus to also farm/level wbs as well as fire mobs. the ppu changes and the class merge should make that pretty clear.

    2. Levelling a tank vs levelling an apu is like comparing apples to oranges.
    i'm not sure what you are referring to. the only time i mentioned my tank, was when i said that tanks wouldn't benefit from the psi changes because ... they are tanks. the follow up should only highlight that they don't need any changes (for balancing purposes) in regards to pve because they already do fine on their own. so they wouldn't benefit, but it doesn't matter. clear now?

    3. soloing an area as a droner does not make pve balanced. What do Droners have to do with Monks?
    again, it all depends on damage/resist numbers. if suddenly high level mobs did less damage altogether but MORE damage to drones, all professions would be more equal in pve. i said it was already possible to solo certain pve aspects of the game, although unfairly only droners can do it. maybe that's even wanted, although i doubt that. maybe monks were never meant to solo doy or mc5!

    4. sweeping generalisations do not really help fix the problem.
    i propose a change to the meta game. i realize that removing the apu/ppu distinction would limit class variance, but the options possible due to those changes should make up for that quite a bit.

    You would have to redesign the entirety of PVE if you got rid of pure PPUs. Everything would need to change in every cave/tunnel/mc5/warbot factory etc. The only thing remotely balanced would be the open world mobs (warbots firemobs etc).

    I love the fact that you are trying to help but please think about what you actually post and how it will affect the REST of the WORLD!
    nonono. i soloed cave with my hc tank, with my droner, with my apu and with my hc pe. i solo mc5 with my tank and it's known that you can solo it with a droner. i guess you can do it with any long range char. mc5 is a very bad example because it's broken.

    tunnel and wb factory need to be adjusted and both are a VERY SMALL part of the game. the numbers need to be tweaked, but the changes are not that big as you might think.

    i for one want to try a neocron without ppu, with solid structures and more anti-stealth tools.

  13. #13
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I will stick with the numbers because it is easier to follow individual points.

    1. I know how good regants is. I realise why people go there. That is a fault with regants however, not with the APU.

    2. You mentioned levelling a tank without a ppu and said youd be a crap player to need to level with a ppu. My advice is try levelling an APU, while not impossible it is nowhere near as much fun/doable as a rifle spy (who has distance) or a tank (who has distance AND resists).

    The APU has neither. He needs both - in some form. Be it nannites or something else. Nannites would be best. They are perfect for APUs to use. (they would need to lower the TC requirement substantially or remove it admittedly but that aside these would be perfect if implemented properly).

    3. Nobody should be able to solo anything with ease. NC PVE in NC1 was better than this. Everyone had a fair shot at levelling solo in the wastelands but you needed a ppu for the caves. This is how it should be. PPUs should be needed for high level end game pve experiences - there are a lot of people out there who love raiding in wow and love playing a dedicated healer class. You cannot discount that market/potential playerbase.

    4. see previous point. MC5 Doy Tunnels and the Warbot factory, along with the Graves are THE end game PVE content. They are not a small part at present.

    Personally I think more could be done with Gaya Mine and some other places to encourage people to go there - Point Red too and many more besides. The Loba Village, Yucida Village, Crest Village too. All of them have end of game bosses (120/120) but there is no reason to go there.

    However none of this has anything to do with the APU. However removing the PPU from the game would mean you had to tone down these other places to the point that anyone could solo them.

    If you do that and people COULD solo them then honestly what would be the point in teaming up? It would make EVERYTHING too easy and therefore boring and people would quit. The Raid-lovers and other PVE lovers would find a game that was no challenge because everything was soloable and they would leave and go back to wow.

    The pvp crowd might like it because they could level faster as APU but lets be fair here thats hardly a benefit to the community in the long term and as a whole.

    So no these changes are NOT good for the game or the community for the reasons stated above (in my opinion).

    I would be a pound to a pinch of shit that APU players would reroll in droves and be happy with current levelling speeds if their class was playable but having someone to fight would also be preferential. Not all of the pvp crowd JUST does pvp you know. I like to farm some rares and construct some guns occasionally too. I know there are many others who prefer this casual relaxed style of pvp in the wastelands as opposed to the high intensity "heart beating fast screaming at each other for buffs" op fights that some of us are lucky enough to participate in. PP1 zoneline hugging is not the be all and end all. There is so much more to NC and removing PPUs as you seem to want to do is bad for the enjoyment of most of it.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  14. #14
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    Of course you did enti.
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    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    Of course you did enti.
    most constructive post on this forum!

    1. fact of the matter. apus go there because their aoe is insanely potent there. it's also boring as shit. my changes would give monks a much needed break and also farming capabilities.

    2. i didn't just try to level an apu, i actually did. it sucked. xp was good but man you go down fast. i must have died to self barreling more often than to mobs. again my proposed changes would help a lot with that.

    3. people who love raiding won't find it in neocron. people who love healers in wow should play wow. honestly, this isn't wow. i don't give two fucks about people who want to heal and shield me. what about the "harsh cyberpunk world" all of a sudden? fluffy bunny pve healers are so not that. do away with them, they won't be missed and you won't ever have a shortage of healers in fights any more. this game is much more fun if everyone has to look after himself and support others by fucking hunt their hunters.

    4. high level mobs do too much damage to players, too little to drones. "easy" fix. tweak some dmg/res numbers.

    point of teaming up is efficiency. ppu is not needed in that equation. if it's too easy increase damage or fix the ai until it's just about right.

    atm apu is a waste of a perfectly good character slot. most people i met level as apu to lom to ppu. same bullshit with leveling a tradeskiller as a droner, but that's a different matter.

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