1. #1
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Default OP PVP as seen by a noob

    [RANT]

    so i've recently started to join clans an do op fights. more seasoned players will know about these things but gotten used to them as a part of the game mechanic. i on the other hand find them pure crap and i'm starting to think that the much touted "end game" is broken beyond repair:

    1. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
    2. if you want to win, bring more spies with stealth.
    3. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
    4. if you want to win, know the location and where to BUG or CLIP.
    5. if you want to win, bring more ppus.

    ppus will make you almost invulnerable, so you will need more ppus to remove the invul to use antis. ppus that are shielded can take almost any beating and rez someone while under fire by countless players.

    skill in op fights evolve around the following:

    1. jitter around like stupid,
    2. use every bug in the environment possible to break target lock,
    3. use stealth to break target lock,
    4. know when to go ug,
    5. let your ppus know where you are and what you are missing,
    6. cheat and not get caught

    the conclusions are rather disturbing:

    1. ppus really serve no purpose in this game. they are the solution to everything and yet achieve nothing that enriches the experience of pvp in any significant way. the fun fights happen, where no ppus are involved.

    2. aiming is broken. it never made sense to begin with, but it becomes so much clearer in op fights, where everything is so much faster. aiming doesn't serve any purpose and it's NO FUN. it's a glorified "Moorhuhn (aka Crazy Chickens)" simulator with a painful delay. most of the time my targets will have clipped through something or gone to stealth before i'm done aiming.

    3. bugs are killing the fun. constantly running in and out of trees and the hackterm so that you break the target lock is beyond stupid. ofc everyone does it, because that's obviously the game and you will lose if you don't. this is so ridiculous. it's actually skill to know when to clip/bug around!

    4. cheating. i wouldn't say it's rampart, but it definitely seems to happen. some people seem to use cheats, but it can't be proven. i've heard from several sources that certain people do cheat and that it's an open secret, but that since it can't be proven, nothing can be done. i don't think anything else can be said here. it's just sad.

    5. movement and lack of proper physics makes the whole fighting a very unpleasant experience altogether. it just doesn't feel good, it looks ridiculous and it favors certain classes, play styles and weapons. i understand that neocron has to make the bridge between rpg and fps but it does both poorly.

    i'll give it a few more tries, before i will probably just leave op fighting to the vets again, who have seemingly come to terms with all the problems a long time ago. i suppose just swallowing the bitter pill is the only choice, if you want to partake in the "supposed endgame" of neocron and it's a very bitter pill.

    [/RANT]
    Last edited by eNTi; 05-06-13 at 12:07.

  2. #2
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    I can tell you that I've experienced PvP the same as you (apart from the cheating, I haven't experienced it).

    That's when I decided to stop and just play a PPU instead. Now all I do is buff and heal people ^^

  3. #3
    The REAL Walker
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    1: Yes PPUs do server a purpose.. Without them, the run to an OP would take longer, than the fight itself..

    2: Nothing wrong with aiming in NC.

    3: This IS a problem yeah (Make objects like hackterms and trees solid or remove them!!).

    4: I havent seen any cheating (in PVP) so far tbh. Not anything obvious anyways..

    5: Just like the aiming, it just takes some time getting used to. Although after the speed nerf, some people seems to be warping sometimes, but that could just be on my end.


    Which character did you opfight with btw?
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  4. #4
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    using a tank atm. trying to get my pe ready, but i think that will be even messier.

  5. #5
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    using a tank atm. trying to get my pe ready, but i think that will be even messier.
    You have to be pretty good on tank, to enjoy opfighting with them IMO.
    Slower reticle and no stealth (and after the speed nerf, no way of escaping), makes tanks the first target most of the time.

    On the PE you will at least have a Jones Stealth.
    On a sidenote about the PE, I would probably use Desperado (103 dex) if I were you - unless you go for WoC ofc.
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  6. #6
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    2: Nothing wrong with aiming in NC.
    i suppose it depends on your point of view. it's ofc a pure mechanical choice which in the end doesn't have to make sense in a real world context. it's a game after all. my approach though is different. i don't "understand" the notion, that i have to aim AGAIN when i target something and something else blocks my target by simply standing before it or even only rushing by in a second.

    aiming in neocron only ever makes sense in relatively complex scenarios in real life. i've shot guns and i'm a proficient archer myself. if something runs into my aim i won't miss, i will just hit the something instead. this is especially true for guns, to a lesser extend for bows.

  7. #7
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Have you lost a lot and decided to come to the forum and complain? Which clan did u join? who do u fight with? Have you won any fights or were they all losses?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
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    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  8. #8
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    Have you lost a lot and decided to come to the forum and complain? Which clan did u join? who do u fight with? Have you won any fights or were they all losses?
    you want context? well we've lost and won. i've not lost items or anything. actually i got more items after the fights to be of more use next time. yes i've come to the forums to complain. i thought the [RANT][/RANT] tags made that clear enough. i do however not complain about specific people. it's just the whole experience. the outcome pretty much depended on who had more ppus in their team.

  9. #9

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    Hello! Dropout is right... u need to be very good to play a Tank in opfights.

    there are 2 ways to play him good.

    1. focus the good enemys down as fast as u can.

    2. if u cant focus them all out u need to know how to run and where to breake the aim of the enemys...(i prefer hackterms)... its stupid but thats to only way to alive... or bring mass Tanks to the fight

    hope the tank will get some more survivalabilitys in opfights soon

    Shagon

  10. #10
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
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    As walker said the desperado is a good shout, I am having a good time with the tl81 pulse laser rifle - not tested in opfighting yet though

  11. #11
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Load_HeavyLoad View Post
    As walker said the desperado is a good shout, I am having a good time with the tl81 pulse laser rifle - not tested in opfighting yet though
    The tl81 pulselaser is good as long as people Arent buffed (IMO), so not that great in opfights sadly.
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  12. #12
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
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    heres to hoping the RoG gets a boost

  13. #13
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    Sadly true for the most part clipping around stuff is the main tactic in pvp and I've always found ppus to ruin the fun, the only good thing a ppu does in my experience is to rez so fights last.

    As for cheating well it very much still exists, I wont name name but theres been fights quite recently where very obvious cheating has happened. Hopefully these people will be banned soon or at least a proper investigation will take place to try and stop them at least.
    "You're fat, and you look like you should be, but you're not."

  14. #14
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    maybe your dying too quickly or maybe you just need to accept defeats at times to players who are better than you. Crying on the forum doesn't help. Maybe your clan isn't organized enough to overcome the better clans.

    Tanks are fun to play. i love playing mine at an op fight. i don't care if i get focused. fought in pp3 the other day vs 3 spies who couldn't bring me down as i was ppued for. (ty bro) If your getting focused and brought down fast find the main person hurting you. shoot them rather than running is one valid trick. you might get them to run off or put the gun away long enough so you can get a heal off.

    to me this just looks and sounds like a whine thread cause you got beaten. nothing more. If you want genuine help try asking for it rather than ranting about stuff. Also try asking your clan. or find one that knows how to op fight. im wondering now if you joined virus.

    the fact you wrote no i didn't lose any items made me giggle seeing how you are at an op fight. you don't drop belts in war zones....
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  15. #15
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    maybe your dying too quickly or maybe you just need to accept defeats at times to players who are better than you. Crying on the forum doesn't help. Maybe your clan isn't organized enough to overcome the better clans.
    i'm not dying too quickly... if anything i'm not dying fast enough because of all the heals an buffs from ppus. my clan is very much organized and crying on the forum helps me a great deal thank you.

    to me this just looks and sounds like a whine thread cause you got beaten. nothing more. If you want genuine help try asking for it rather than ranting about stuff. Also try asking your clan. or find one that knows how to op fight. im wondering now if you joined virus.
    yeah... everything does to you. i'm not even denying this is a whine thread, only that winning or losing in an op fight as a noob pretty much doesn't bother me. i did my part. took some fire off better dds and hurt some enemies. some died, i died. they were rezzed, i was was rezzed. i didn't feel especially good after winning or bad after losing. i just had the "meh feeling" of this wasn't really fun or engaging either way. i slept over it and wrote my rant the day after. enough time to reflect and even calm down if that had been an issue in the first place.

    the fact you wrote no i didn't lose any items made me giggle seeing how you are at an op fight. you don't drop belts in war zones....
    you are so pro it makes me want me have your babies.

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