LE clans

[Load_HeavyLoad]

The LE hasn't changed for 10 years (Except for the LE penalty) so I guess this game has been in cybersimsonline mode for that long.

and look at how it was exploited

The PvP'er need to allow the PvE's to play this game the way they want. The game isn't going to grow if we are hostile to LE players playing this game.

im not saying get rid of it or be hostile, but if we allow for an environment where an LE community can form this will dichotomise the NC community even more

[Load_HeavyLoad]

well hostility and insults is all you will ever get from the pvp oriented players in this game. it probably is a testosterone problem, i don't know. having valid counter points doesn't equal being stupid. you need to learn that other people have other ideas of the game. as i'm partaking on many activities in neocron, pve as well as pvp and i don't see either as proper end game but just as other fun activities i enjoy until i'm getting bored again, i might have more insight than the purists underneath you. maybe not. but who cares, you certainly don't.

So now you've just done what you flamed me for doing - projected your own idea as how NC should be played, the facts are there the game is centred towards and everything funnels towards endgame PvP even the Devs have bloody said it

[William Antrim]

Brammers it is not daft. It is a fact. PvE is a necessity in NC but it is not the lifeblood.

[Mokoi]

Please remind yourself of where this conversation is taking place and stay constructive.

This is clearly a matter on which parts of our community will have to agree to disagree, so fighting over "who is right" or repeating your position is absolutely not going to help this thread (or any other Brainport thread for the matter).
The same is true for any claims on what Neocron is, was or had ought to be. It is many different things for the many different players in our colorful community.

If you agree with a Brainport proposal, support it by stating why you think the proposed feature would be a good feature to implement and how you think it will affect/change the game for better.
If you disagree with a proposal, state why and in what ways you think the proposed feature would negatively impact the game.

In other words: What do you expect to change if the proposal was implemented and why would that be good or bad?


P.S.:
Please stop the flaming and attacking others over different opinions.
That behavior sparks useless noise, makes it harder for us to follow the Brainport and will thus get your posting privileges revoked for this section. So please, try and stay constructive when talking to other community members - even if their opinion may not make sense to you. Thanks.

[Eternal Pink]

Like the idea, since you could then have levelling clans which could be LE'd or not LE'd which would let peeps play how THEY want to play not how other players dictate they should play (that seems to happen in every LE thread I've ever seen)

More choice is generally always good.

[William Antrim]

If people are encouraged to keep the le in then it will negatively impact on the game and the community. The harsh cyberpunk world will suddenly be a chat room with graphics.


It is the worst idea possible. More reasons are needed to remove the le not more reasons to keep it in. Le'd players do not roleplay they level together regardless of faction. There is more roleplay in most opfights in this game than any of the le'd runners. The recent changes to the le are the best things done to nc in a very long time. This sort of change would rapidly undo all of that.

[Deus Ex Machina]

If LE clans were possible the following would impact NC negativly:

Someone starts out. He looks for help, and either he finds an LE clan or maybe he finds a few likeminded runners and they form one (if it is cheap as it was proposed). [Since everyone said to keep the thing in fro now]. Now begins the threatening part: The runner forms attachements to the other runners, and to the clan. Why is that a problem? When the "time" comes to part from the LE, it would also mean parting from the clan. But the clan pulls in the other direction.
So instead of a pull towards Non LE because then you can join a clan and find friends, you have a pull towards LE because you want to stay in clan with friends.

Thats what I would see as a problem with LE clans, although it wouldn't affect "old" players I guess.

[William Antrim]

Cooperation in battle with other runners is ten times more rewarding than cooperation with other runners versus monsters.


The feeling you get when you crush an enemy faction is one hundred (minimum) times more satisfying than crushing ANOTHER Grim Chaser.

Pvp is the lifeblood of NC. Without it players would have upped sticks and left this game in favour of other games who handle that part of the game much more successfully.

PVE in nc is a supporter to PVP. Sure players can do that. They have a team channel and a buddy channel to communicate in with their new best friends. They do not need a clan channel as well.

A clan invokes a feeling of unity and a sense of identity, brothers in arms, courage in the face of adversity. A whole plethora of emotions that can only be truly experienced when locked in mortal combat with another bunch of bloodthirsty psychos from another faction because they dared to attack your op.

To join a clan in NC should mean something. A rite of passage. It shows you have balls to the community. You became a man. You took out the LE and you joined a faction, you picked a side, you are prepared to fight and die for your faction because you truly believe in its ideals.

There is more roleplay in that one action than any LE'd "carebear social levelling clan" could ever muster. Sure you can call meetings and congratulate one another on how wonderful you are and sit around and drink tea and be wonderful but until you have rushed to an op, yelled for your buffs and zoned up out of the UG into god only knows what sort of shit storm is flying the other way you cannot actually say you have ever truly experienced Neocron.

When the plasma starts to fly and the emotions run high you go out there with your CS or your holy heal in hand and you listen to what target is being called and you listen to your clan leader as he tells you he had a drug flash or your other ppu just disconnected for the third time that fight. You feel a rush when you see that opponent drop in a burst of plasma and a hail of bullets because one of your clan mates was ballsy enough to bring a Pain Easer to an op fight. You sit at your desk reaching for your cigarettes or another drink as you let your heart beat slow back down to normal pace and you can breathe a sigh of relief as you watch the last of the other team release and go back to p1 and get pokes. You get to enjoy standing around in p1 for 20 minutes while they get poked up and one of you baits em on trade for a few minutes. You get to feel that rush again as another layer of a different op gets hacked and that "oh fuck" moment as you realise - here we go again. Another 3 hour op fight and it is sunday afternoon and my girlfriend is bitching.

LE clans will never get to experience that.

It might sound like madness, but honestly this IS Neocron.

[Load_HeavyLoad]

So much win stuff

literally what he said

[Dropout]

literally what he said

/Same tbh.

[Doc Holliday]

Alternatively you can log in with your le friends and sit and decide what mob you would like to go farm today or what adventure in a dungeon you would like to explore with the le people in your clan and this will satisfy you for a while. But there will come a time when you think hang on. This can not be all there is to it. There must be more to the game than this. Then what happens is you do one of two things. Pull the le and join another clan or pull your friends and join another game. I heard wow is going f2p at the end of the year seriously.

Pve encounters are the same. Continuously. Neocrons are not on the scale of other games and never will be. PvP on the other hand. No 2 fights are ever the same. People trying to pidgeon hole people in to these classifications are terribly short sighted but it happens a lot. My point is an le clan is like smoking when a woman is pregnant. Sure she might think its a good thing but its only gonna cause harm later on.

Sorry for the grim analogy but its the best I can think of right now.

[eNTi]

[edit] pulling out the le and joining a clan has absolutely NOTHING to do with rp. NADA. not a darn thing. the only thing it does, is make you vulnerable and that MIGHT immerse you in the game. that COULD help your mindset to rp.

i don't think any of you have every really played an pnp rpg. because that's what we are talking about here. living in the fantasy that you are that one character. the rpg part of the mmorpg in neocron actually refers to the crpg part of the game, which is purely a mechanical thing. it has nothing to do with playing out your fantasies, which again, has nothing to do with le/no le.

it might break your immersion if you can't attack someone because you can't fathom a scenario in your little fantasy world that includes invulnerability. but that's your problem. no the players that are perfectly fine with the le and also don't have a problem rping despite or maybe even because of the le.

[edit]

as long as there is no way of safely transferring items to your other chars or sharing storages safely between different players, there's no good reason to deny le'd players this benefit. this is the only game mechanic that allows this and forcing people into pvp because they want to share items is retarded in a very special way.

[edit]

[Brammers]

There are two types of players. Players who keep the LE in and players who remove it. It's their choice at the end of the day.

What will LE clans offer? A place for LE players to be together in a shared apartment and a chat channel. A safe safe and comrade-like environment like normal clans offer.

LE clans will not let them take outposts or do PvP. Remember LE players cannot take part PvP so it will not effect PvP at all. Also the LE is forcing the players to make a choice at /30

There will be a time when the player wants to take the LE out and do PvP. So they will have to leave the clan. Well players do leave clans and move on, that is almost like life. Like leaving home for the first time or a rite of passage.

Now there is a bonus to having LE clans. What if they all decide "Yeah, PvP lets do it!" Well the bonus is, those players leave the LE clan, pull their LE's and reform a new non-LE clan. So in effect, the PvP'ers will now have more people to fight...and also a new clan to fight..

Another thing to consider here is Neocron's long term future. Neocron populations are what I would call stable, but they are not really growing.

Until about 2009 (I forget the exact date) we paid to play this game as is. The game is now free to play. Sadly in this free to pay world, players are more picky about features than if they were playing. Also players have less time to play games. Gone are the days where I would come home from work and play Neocron from 5pm until 2am.

So what is Neocron going to offer a new player. At the moment it is "Oh I get this LE which keeps be safe from PK'ers...but I can't join a clan? This game sucks." Would it be better if the player says "Oh I get this LE which keeps be safe from PK'ers...and I can join a LE clan of players who might help me in the early days. This game rocks, let me call my mates!"

LE clan's will not harm the Neocron world. The only thing LE clan's is going to harm is a few peoples ego's.

[Load_HeavyLoad]

[edit] the RP side of the game is focussed around PvP - take the most recent and biggest RP event in years when TG attacked CA even the GMs/Devs complained about the attitude of the LE'd players and the lack of PvP which the event was meant to generate. From the sounds of everyone i've ever spoken to on the forum no one wants to treat the game like a pnprpg with their LE in pretending like its a big deal you killed the chaos queen or 'hunted down the rare and dangerous Grim Reaper' [edit].

Oh yeah FYI go to one of your characters apartment, drop what you want on the floor in the hall, log onto your other character go up into the hall of the same appartment and hey presto easy item transfer.

[edit]

an actual thought out argument and point

i do see where youre getting at Brammers but the point of the recent LE changes is to de-incentivising LE'd PvE, i think by allowing LE'd clans you are now re-incentivising people to have their LE in because of the LEd communities that would form around LEd clans and as such would be a massive step back. Having an LEd clan from 0/2 upto 0/30 or hell even 0/45 would be fine because then it will form a channel in which new and old players alike could form new friendships etc but i wholeheartedly disagree with having LEd clans beyond that point

[Doc Holliday]

[edit]

Brammers. Really? So explain to me exactly how someone doesnt feel closer to the clan or a stronger bond to the faction when, after removing the LE they get pked for the first time or get into a fight and win for the first time either or. At some point during the fight they call for back up and they see clan mates or even faction mates (there is such a thing as faction chat. its kinda cool.) coming to help them. If im a noob and thats me and all of a sudden im getting rezzed by another person whos in the same faction as me and has come to help me im gonna be like whoa this game is way cool.

The le clan deprives someone of that. Its not what joining a clan is all about. it flies in the face of it in my eyes.

[edit]