Discussion for the improvement of the MOVEON

[Khorwin]

I know that moveon give 15 end but if you read the previous treads you will see that 15 atl was a proposal to improve moveon.
Don t were a PA is a choose you can use one if you want. Many tank zre using the pa woc in pvp that s a game style some other choose to be faster without PA.
You also forget to say that spy use holovest and they don t give any point in rc or pc.

If you find spy so overpowered why don t you play it. But you will really be desepointed when you will get kill in 5 seconds, the strenght of tanks are on there resist not there power of strick nore there quickness.
If you espect tank to be the faster, the main damager aoe and monotarget, and the most resistant damager class, I guess that you will be despointed. Tanks already have a good dps, in my opinion it does not need improvement. They have to be slower than other classes exepted mele.
But I have the impression to speak to a wall, I don t like the idea to make moveon a hc improvement implant , I prefer it to up hlt atl and tra.
That's my opinion you don t need to agree.

[DIABLO666]

I don't think spys are OP im just pointing out obvious things which are true or are you saying tanks are faster with better dps and escape ability?, I'm mearly saying that spys are faster as they don't get slowed by having their weapon out (well pistols don't anyway) and as they have a smaller hit box most of them go for a huge speed setup while hitting hard as hell as the spy as I understand it is huge damage and nigh on impossible to hit (well thats the ideal).

I'm not saying I want to make tanks ultra mega class I'm just saying the moveon could have better stats and that hc stats would help as pes could use it and right now hc pes are a very rare thing but before it was a valid setup, most tanks probably wouldn't even use it at cap, with my current setup if they fixed the mc5 ballistic as well I know I sure as hell wouldn't unless it gave a stupid amount of hc. Perhaps some tanks would for a pure dps setup but not many, it would mainly be for hc pes. As a hlt atl chip it would be useless pretty much unless it gave HUGE amounts cos theres so many better imps such as the ss/sf and mc5 chips for spys (also resistor chips though while pes use them I'm not sure if spys do) and as a tank I wouldn't need it as I've got plenty of atl and health from other sources.

As for pa well I'm using it now so I take that back =p still spys do have better implants in general, again not saying they are OP cos of it but if you check my other threads asking for improvements for the marine and ballistic you will see the comparison.

[Khorwin]

So let's check this out. you tell us that using a chip lvl 2 (soldier 2) is a shame for tank HC. I'm not sure but did you know there is a backbone that gave 10 HC, of course you did.

For spy: Mc5+rare implant+N3 implant gave 21+15+15=51 RC or TC (and use 3 brain imp)
For tank: Mc5+backbone+soldier gave 11+10+20=41 HC (and use 2 brain imp)

In fact you are crying for 10 small points that tank can easely put with there own stats, why because every stats in STR are bullshit exept HC and percing (but you don't need a big amount of percing). For the DEX this is not the same, you got RC or PC,TC and AGL. Only 2 good stats (if we consider percing as a good one) in STR, while there is 3 stats you must run over 50 for DEX for a spy (tank only have AGL and a little TC). If you are not capable to understand this I'm afraid but I can't do anything for you.

So befor crying start learning to count.

[slith]

- improve hlth/athl of any class which is always wanted (which will create many new setup possibility, which is already making me wet)

Me too..
The switch from END to ATL and from CON to STR sounds reasonable. Would make it useful to every class and create many new options. And anyone who uses the HC Backbone as a Tank is clearly not thinking straight :P

[DIABLO666]

So let's check this out. you tell us that using a chip lvl 2 (soldier 2) is a shame for tank HC. I'm not sure but did you know there is a backbone that gave 10 HC, of course you did.

For spy: Mc5+rare implant+N3 implant gave 21+15+15=51 RC or TC (and use 3 brain imp)
For tank: Mc5+backbone+soldier gave 11+10+20=41 HC (and use 2 brain imp)

In fact you are crying for 10 small points that tank can easely put with there own stats, why because every stats in STR are bullshit exept HC and percing (but you don't need a big amount of percing). For the DEX this is not the same, you got RC or PC,TC and AGL. Only 2 good stats (if we consider percing as a good one) in STR, while there is 3 stats you must run over 50 for DEX for a spy (tank only have AGL and a little TC). If you are not capable to understand this I'm afraid but I can't do anything for you.

So befor crying start learning to count.

I can't explain properly right now, but you get more rc you also get more good secondary stats which tank imps dont give and only low techs use the hardened backbone as you are slow as hell without the reflex 4. Please use a tank before you say their imps are fine and stop ignoring the lots of secondary stats.

And again you ignore wep lore spys get 100 int tanks get 25 and wep lore is VERY helpful for guns, stop trying to paint the picture of the poor little spys all defencless against the big bad tanks you have plenty of points to spends. And you are way off the entire point, the point is certain implants are worthless, just cos you can't kill tanks doesn't mean their mc5 and marines should be utterly worthless junk. Just stop whining

[Khorwin]

Diablo666 the only person whining in this tread it's you.
Who is asking for improvement of marine, of the the balistic and ask for moveon to improve tank again. If this is not whining I don't know what it is.
I also have a tank and it s interessant to play, you are slower (a little) than other classes but the damages are correct i don t feel weak. In fact it s a good classe because they have some difficulty to deal with, but you also have great advantages for exemple you are more difficult to kill than APU, SPY, or PE.
The low tech weaponery of tank is really a good one, but need some skill.
On more time if you really feel to weak, play something else.

[DIABLO666]

See again you are trying to turn this into something its not, I'm sorry if tanks kill you a lot but this thread isn't saying they are weak or OP its asking for the moveon to not be made a worthless chip along with the marine and the mc5 ballistic. If you notice everybody else agrees as these chips right now are useless, the moveon is pretty worthless when it was great for hc pes (I don't know what sort of a tank would use a moveon in their end build). the marine is a complete utter joke and the mc5 ballistic is sort of useable but its nowhere near as good as its equivalents.

Once again I'm not nor have I ever said tank are weak and need a boost, I'm saying these chips need to be fixed cos right now a shop bought level 2 chip far out performs the marine and even the ballistic mc5, hell the level 1 chip out performs the marine

[William Antrim]

Once again I'm not nor have I ever said tank are weak and need a boost, I'm saying these chips need to be fixed cos right now a shop bought level 2 chip far out performs the marine and even the ballistic mc5, hell the level 1 chip out performs the marine

The OP has a very valid point here. Other aspects of Tank pvp will need to be looked at when these changes come into effect however there are also HC PE's to be looked at. The Moveon was (in its previous incarnation) a godsend to them.

[Khorwin]

See again you are trying to turn this into something its not, I'm sorry if tanks kill you a lot but this thread isn't saying they are weak or OP its asking for the moveon to not be made a worthless chip along with the marine and the mc5 ballistic. If you notice everybody else agrees as these chips right now are useless, the moveon is pretty worthless when it was great for hc pes (I don't know what sort of a tank would use a moveon in their end build). the marine is a complete utter joke and the mc5 ballistic is sort of useable but its nowhere near as good as its equivalents.

Diablo666, can you stop using drogs or answering without reading. "Sorry if tanks kill you alot" where the hell did you find this. I didn't say that tank are to strong, just the tread befor I tell they are balanced...(and that I 've got a capped tank).
In this tread the only message I try to tell is that moveon can be improved but and don't need to give HC
for exemple a moveon like this one (STR:+3.95 TRA:+7.93 HLT:+7.93 ATL:+15.86) would be a good improvement that every classes could use because it give 2 good stats of constitution health and atletic.
If they change the actual moveon for this one I surely use it.

One last thing since the start of neocron 1 many monk use the level 2 chip one buid was DS+psycore+agressive or defensive 3 and 2. So using a level 2 implant sorry about that but this is more a choice than an obligation.

[DIABLO666]

The point is tanks are using level 2 chips because the other chips have become worthless. And the whole reason I'm saying to give the moveon hc is so its good for a hc pe, if you played a tank you would know no tank in his right mind would use a moveon instead of something else apart from maybe for a low damage resist build, the moveon was good while leveling maybe but was always replaced for a tank HOWEVER a hc pe would find use of it in a end build, removing hc from it and making it worthless was a huge hit to hc tanks

[Dropout]

The point is tanks are using level 2 chips because the other chips have become worthless.

Spies uses level 2 chips aswell... I dont see the problem?

[DIABLO666]

Do you have an SF and a mc5 that have proper stats instead of joke stats? by gosh I think you do!

Please just look at the stats on the marine moveon and mc5 ballistic (comparing the marine and mc5 ballistic to the equivilent imps) THEN you will see why they need fixing. Its not even a case of rebalance they are so broken the only term you can use is fix

[Dropout]

Do you have an SF and a mc5 that have proper stats instead of joke stats? by gosh I think you do!

Please just look at the stats on the marine moveon and mc5 ballistic (comparing the marine and mc5 ballistic to the equivilent imps) THEN you will see why they need fixing. Its not even a case of rebalance they are so broken the only term you can use is fix

Do you have Soldier implants that gives +STR..? Uh yeah you do.... Now stop whining.
(Yeah I do agree that MOVEON is horrible - But balistics is not a bad implant).

[DIABLO666]

the ballistic might not be *bad* so to speak but lets compare shall we.

Ballistic gives STR:+5.23 H‑C:+10.46 TRA:+10.46 HLT:+10.46 END:+10.46
DEX:-1.73 AGL:-5.18

The dex equivalents give DEX:+5.23 WEP:+10.46 P‑C:+20.92 T‑C:+10.46
PSU:-4.32 FCS:-4.32

And DEX:+5.23 WEP:+10.46 R‑C:+20.92 T‑C:+10.46
PSU:-4.32 FCS:-4.32

Thats 10 more of the major skill and both give 10 of a secondary skill which is good for damage while reducing skills which the user wont even care that they get reduced. Does this look balanced to you?

Now let us look at the marine and the SS and SF

Marine gives STR:+1.90 TRA:+15.21 FOR:+9.51 PCR:+9.51
INT:-1.00 HCK:-5.02.

and SS and SF give

DEX:+3.88 P‑C:+15.54 T‑C:+15.54
STR:-1.00 M‑C:-5.13 for the SS

DEX:+3.88 R‑C:+15.54 T‑C:+15.54
STR:-1.00 M‑C:-5.13 for the SF

So.. do I even need to go into that? well lets the marine gives NO damage boosting stats at all its basically a semi trader semi really bad resistor implant, the SS and SF give 15 of a damage booster and 15 of a secondary damage booster.

As I said this is nothing to do with saying tanks are underpowered and need a boost, this is to do with saying its ridiculous that the chips are so different. The ballistic chip has its place in a build I wont deny that, but is it an as useful place as the dex equivalents? the answer to that is most certainly no.

[Dropout]

Uh the Marine is definitely underpowered as hell right now. It is tbh probably the single worst implant in the game..

But a lot of Things needs to be calculated in.. Like STR vs DEX skills... DEX users have A LOT more Things to use their points on than STR users have.

Honestly though, ALL implants needs to be balanced IMO.
That Long Distance/Close Combat CPU doesnt give DEX, when Soldier does, is kinda weird IMO (and a fucking pain for PE's).

I have said it before, and I'll say it Again.. I do NOT envy the Devs on this balancing project.. What a freaking mess they have to fix