1. #31
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    honestly, SL is something like a "goodness" value. killing does and never should make you a better person. while killing enemy runners might be required sometimes to achieve a higher goal, killing innocents or friendlies is bad. killing is always bad, but because it's not always that simple non-friendly kills often do not result in you being seen as bad (by the society/faction you are in).

    killing certain runners could positively affect your symp with all factions that have a allied/neutral status with you and are enemies of the faction in question, but should also negatively affect your symp with the faction of the victim and their allies.

    killing simply shouldn't be rewarded in any case. that's simple ethics imho. it should never affect your sl in a positive way.

  2. #32
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    No gain of any description if the target is under the influence of Synaptic impairment.


    Should discourage (but not stop) gr killing for the benefit and would make it take significantly longer if the person was doing the killing with a "client".


    People were paid to die for epics many years ago. How is this any different?
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  3. #33
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    No gain of any description if the target is under the influence of Synaptic impairment.


    Should discourage (but not stop) gr killing for the benefit and would make it take significantly longer if the person was doing the killing with a "client".


    People were paid to die for epics many years ago. How is this any different?
    you don't have to kill players any more for epics, because it was abused to the point it being a gimmicky hurdle?
    synimp doesn't last as long as you might think. it only seems that way, because the wait is so boring. same idea like the arbitrary 30 minute limit. still abuseable.

  4. #34
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Ok, so let me get this right from a vaguely RP angle.
    Soul light is purely gained by doing something good. Killing an enemy faction runner isn't good for your 'soul' so you don't gain any soul light but because you're brain washed by your faction you don't get penalized for doing it (no soul light loss) Infact your get faction sympathy.

    That about it?

    So basically all we really need is sensible ways for people to regain soul light should they need to, but not something that's so easy it negated the whole thing.

    Could be an excuse to get/send runners out into the unused parts of the game world.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Netphreak View Post
    Ok, so let me get this right from a vaguely RP angle.
    Soul light is purely gained by doing something good. Killing an enemy faction runner isn't good for your 'soul' so you don't gain any soul light but because you're brain washed by your faction you don't get penalized for doing it (no soul light loss) Infact your get faction sympathy.

    That about it?

    So basically all we really need is sensible ways for people to regain soul light should they need to, but not something that's so easy it negated the whole thing.

    Could be an excuse to get/send runners out into the unused parts of the game world.
    I agree!

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    killing simply shouldn't be rewarded in any case. that's simple ethics imho. it should never affect your sl in a positive way.
    I always wanted to pop that retarded killer phrase: Thats not cyberpunk! Go uninstall carebear!

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  7. #37
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    My vision below.

    1. Soul light is removed from the game entirely;
    2. Faction sympathy will play a bigger role;
    3. Neutral factions are removed, either friendly or hostile;
    4. Killing hostiles increases your faction sympathy (there will need to be thought out some stuff to prevent exploiting on this one of course);
    5. Killing allies reduces your faction sympathy;
    6. 0 faction sympathy makes you Anarchy Breed;
    7. Being Anarchy Breed makes you hostile to everyone, including other Anarchy Breed, further pro's and con's would have to be set up;
    8. To rejoin a faction a lot of stuff needs to be done, so you can't simply exploit faction symp by killing hostiles to get back up or something;

    Remove the entire SL system, let us focus on one thing and one thing only, faction sympathy. We are living in a post apocalyptic world, who cares about their souls, we just want to survive

    Anarchy Breed could give the penalties negative SL currently gives inside the city. Outside the city they would have little problems. Putting this in place ensures that naughty people still have trouble in the city. Let's face it, I doubt COPBOTs can read people their souls to see if they have been naughty or not. They are not santa claus. However it does make sense that they can check tho which faction a player belongs. Scanning them and finding that they are Anarchy Breed would lead to the shit negative SL currently leads to.

    Additionally I would love the LE to work only in designated zones, it would fit the above vision, however that will have to be left for another discussion.

    Every Faction get's guards outside their offices. Hostile factions are KOS. Put some fighting back in Neocron.

    Anarchy Breed is shot by everyone. Copbots, faction guards alike. Anarchy Breed will give the benefit that you can kill everyone as everyone is hostile, but you'll still have some problems maneuvering through the city as you have the old negative SL reductions (such as GR/app access in the city).

    All Plaza & Viarosso zones are safezones. Weapons can't be drawn. All other zones can be fought in fully! I'm posting that here as I think it is a requirement if Soul Light is removed.

    Clanned Trade Skillers and non LEd noobies will have the Plaza sectors to trade in without worries.

    There will have to be something thought out for belt hacking/drops. This is currently based on SL level. This would have to be based on other stuff.

    You guys should think of other names for Anarchy Breed.

    1. Criminal
    2. Rogue
    3. Lone wolf
    4. Psycho
    5. Anarchist
    6. Murderer
    Last edited by SilentEye; 17-05-13 at 16:05.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentEye View Post
    My vision below.

    1. Soul light is removed from the game entirely;
    2. Faction sympathy will play a bigger role;
    3. Neutral factions are removed, either friendly or hostile;
    4. Killing hostiles increases your faction sympathy (there will need to be thought out some stuff to prevent exploiting on this one of course);
    5. Killing allies reduces your faction sympathy;
    6. 0 faction sympathy makes you Anarchy Breed;
    7. Being Anarchy Breed makes you hostile to everyone, including other Anarchy Breed, further pro's and con's would have to be set up;
    8. To rejoin a faction a lot of stuff needs to be done, so you can't simply exploit faction symp by killing hostiles to get back up or something;

    Remove the entire SL system, let us focus on one thing and one thing only, faction sympathy. We are living in a post apocalyptic world, who cares about their souls, we just want to survive

    Anarchy Breed could give the penalties negative SL currently gives inside the city. Outside the city they would have little problems. Putting this in place ensures that naughty people still have trouble in the city. Let's face it, I doubt COPBOTs can read people their souls to see if they have been naughty or not. They are not santa claus. However it does make sense that they can check tho which faction a player belongs. Scanning them and finding that they are Anarchy Breed would lead to the shit negative SL currently leads to.

    Additionally I would love the LE to work only in designated zones, it would fit the above vision, however that will have to be left for another discussion.

    Every Faction get's guards outside their offices. Hostile factions are KOS. Put some fighting back in Neocron.

    Anarchy Breed is shot by everyone. Copbots, faction guards alike. Anarchy Breed will give the benefit that you can kill everyone as everyone is hostile, but you'll still have some problems maneuvering through the city as you have the old negative SL reductions (such as GR/app access in the city).

    All Plaza & Viarosso zones are safezones. Weapons can't be drawn. All other zones can be fought in fully! I'm posting that here as I think it is a requirement if Soul Light is removed.

    Clanned Trade Skillers and non LEd noobies will have the Plaza sectors to trade in without worries.

    There will have to be something thought out for belt hacking/drops. This is currently based on SL level. This would have to be based on other stuff.

    You guys should think of other names for Anarchy Breed.

    1. Criminal
    2. Rogue
    3. Lone wolf
    4. Psycho
    5. Anarchist
    6. Murderer
    Your vision sounds very good to me. You should make a separate thread in the Brainport and put it there. It's a complete revamp of the faction and soullight system.

    This sums it up pretty nicely what's been floating around on the boards lately. Good stuff!

    I was asking myself recently too why there is even a "neutral" status in the faction relations. It does not make any sense at all. Neutral should mean you are like Switzerland in the World Wars and everybody leaves you alone, but in NC you are simply an easy kill with almost non-existent punishment. Neutral is senseless.

    With your system I'd even be playing a criminal too, cause i fucking love challenges in game.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    I was asking myself recently too why there is even a "neutral" status in the faction relations.
    Binary thinking in Red vs Blue is for fairy people
    Some more shades give some more depth to the faction system. People are just too lazy to get creative.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
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  10. #40
    für einen freien Geist Deus Ex Machina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    I was asking myself recently too why there is even a "neutral" status in the faction relations. It does not make any sense at all. Neutral should mean you are like Switzerland in the World Wars and everybody leaves you alone, but in NC you are simply an easy kill with almost non-existent punishment. Neutral is senseless.
    Neutral is meant to be neutral between Enemy and Ally. And not "Switzerland" neutral
    And the need for that status is quite easy to see I'd say. Because not every faction in the world is an enemy OR an ally.
    Only allies and enemies would also make things much more complicated than now, and move (more or less) subtly but certainly back in direction of the red vs blues system we finally abandoned again.
    Because in an only enemies and allies system every faction would have much more enemies than now, since many allies wouldn't make logical relations with most factions. (For example The Fallen Angels would hardly be allied to City Admin AND Twilight Guardian). It would become a global killing spree. And, whoa we wouldn't need to think about sectors too anymore, since enemies are enmies nearly everywhere, and allies are allies nearly everywhere (You know that neutrals can be killed consequence free in many sectors, right?).
    But I guess some people can just deal better with "easy"
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  11. #41

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    We need a Battlefield zoneline in the city, with a safezone next to it with gogo and GR and benches.


    If the people arn't OP waring, they will be zoneline fighting, this is what people obviously like to do in this game.


    We almost have exactly what we need in PP1, just make it a Battlefield sector for now please.


    Then I bet you people will stop moaning about the SL rules and perhaps think of some nice SL/FS rules ideas and post them on forums, after they're done fighting and having fun in Pepper Park.

  12. #42
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    people who cant pvp hug zonelines. i prefer to take my lumps and fight to the death. win or lose.

    SI blocking SL being awarded is an excellent idea.
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  13. #43
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    I know lets just remove soul light or have no factions at all and no clans just a huge free for all!

    Soul light is there to create sides and allies which is needed, do you have any idea of the chaos that would ensue if everybody you saw could potentially try to kill you while everybody else did. You'd have no allies except your clan, it might sound fun but trust me after a day of having anybody who isn't in your clan trying to kill you you would be begging for this system back. And of course they said they are going to improve on the current sl system with changes to the missions, I'm guessing so you can gain back sl at faster than a snails pace but you need to put yourself at risk to do it and as such balancing out the risk of killing allies and the joy of it. I'm hoping its a simple system, say you gain a % sl from missions based on current sl, so for example at 30sl you gain say 20% of the potential sl, at -99 you gain 100%. This way you can still get high sl to keep your belt safe but people with low sl can try to get out of bad sl (of course there needs to be a way to stop them doing easy missions to do it quickly, or trade missions)
    "You're fat, and you look like you should be, but you're not."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    It is the game designers/administrators' responsability to provide players a framework/game where exploits are prevented and limited.


    To follow up on the RL example, if you provide citizen with a road with no speed limit panels, how can the the citizen know which speed is OK ?


    People simply can and will ride at whatever speed they see fit. It is the city's responsability to set and enforce limits.


    Relying on citizen to regulate themselves is most retarded, just as much as relying on gamers to "play fair and square" is.
    Ok lets take another example, place a citizen in a room with a woman tied up and no laws in that room, will he rape her? according to you yes cos why follow the law if there isn't one. Of course the answer is no he wont do it cos as a species we realies this is NOT something that should be done, the law isn't really needed its more a formalising that you end up in prison if you do it.

    The difference is speeding isn't a bad thing on a open road with nobody on it, when I drive down the motorway at 3am I speed cos its empty and if theres a 5 year old running across the motorway at 3am then me hitting them is the least of their problems frankly, if its a street with houses and kids on it I will go slowly cos I could hit somebody.

    In the same way people should make their own decisions, and abusing systems like these just make the game they enjoy worse and kill it. So why do it? why would you want to do something that removes fun from the game and eventually kills it? the only answer is you don't enjoy the game and want it to die off so you should be banned.
    "You're fat, and you look like you should be, but you're not."

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    people who cant pvp hug zonelines. i prefer to take my lumps and fight to the death. win or lose.

    SI blocking SL being awarded is an excellent idea.
    The problem with this is if nobody rezzes you you end up with a 15min wait to fight again, who wants to fight for 1min or so then wait 15mins to fight again? And of course you loose a item that might be hacked, perhaps item you need so you need to go buy it, even more time lost AND money. Perhaps an imp breaks when it fell out? and cost and more time out of the fight and if theres no repper your fighting is over unless you can somehow go on without it though you'll be worse off.

    This is why people zone hug and why ppus should only be around for OP fights, leveling, and to rezz people who die in these fights. People would fight to the death more if they would get a rezz but frankly I don't want to wait 15mins minimum between fights that is a sure fire way to make me and others quit the game.
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