Soul light is eliminating PvP and hurting population.

[Drachenpaladin]

I have no idea what you're posting today. Reptile brains? Endorphins? Overcompensating? Too much caffiene?

I'm with eNTi here. The absurdity is that Neocrons freedom of choice is praised all over the place and on the other hand people call for implementation of stronger rules and tighter controlled gameplay mechanics. And why? Becose people can't behave and know no reservation. They just fall for the most primitive instincts without realizing the damage this kind of behavior does.
There is a reason why you can't or won't do everything in RL that you could or would. The same applies to games with a social environment, whether Cyberpunk or not. Its just a game, but it works just the same way as real life. But people just prefer to do what they can, so we end up with a broken environment.

[Jest]

A lot of pvpers want more freedom of choices and consequences.

You don't want freedom on consequences you want there to be no consequences.

We are forced into a playsytle that causes less fights and less reason to play and stay entertained.

You aren't forced into any play style. You have the capacity to attack any other player in the game regardless of their faction. And in almost any location. You aren't even penalized for it in half of the zones in the world. What other MMOs, even ones with heavy PvP could say the same? If you are looking for an open world type PvP game with no SL consequences then I recommend checking DayZ out.

My first proposal is allowing positive soul light gain by killing enemies of your faction.

This is the equivalent of removing SoulLight from the game. It would make it abusable to the point of SL being worthless.

I d like to hear why some think not fighting is what pvpers want.

Oh wait, you enjoy fighting? Thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding that so many of us had.

id also appreciate quick fix solutions to the problem.

This is not a quick fix type of problem. But there are plenty of existing ideas that would ease the pain of your SL loss. A functional clan war system comes to mind. Find or make posts that push the fixing of the clan war system.

having a place for negative soul light characters should also be an issue instead of costing us more players.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the Jail was only for negative soul light characters. If there are things lacking in the Jail then you could make a Brainport suggesting some changes. I've always thought there should be a GR there personally.

[Kame]

It is the game designers/administrators' responsability to provide players a framework/game where exploits are prevented and limited.


To follow up on the RL example, if you provide citizen with a road with no speed limit panels, how can the the citizen know which speed is OK ?


People simply can and will ride at whatever speed they see fit. It is the city's responsability to set and enforce limits.


Relying on citizen to regulate themselves is most retarded, just as much as relying on gamers to "play fair and square" is.

[Brammers]

I understand that some non LE pvp players want to honor the color system. A lot of pvpers want more freedom of choices and consequences. We are forced into a playsytle that causes less fights and less reason to play and stay entertained.

You say "We" implying a collective of players instead of "You" or "I" or "Me" for yourself. So who is this group of players you claim to represent?

And your playstyle is your own choice, no-one is forcing you to play in a certain way or to play this game.

My first proposal is allowing positive soul light gain by killing enemies of your faction. I d like to hear why some think not fighting is what pvpers want. id also appreciate quick fix solutions to the problem. having a place for negative soul light characters should also be an issue instead of costing us more players.

Killing enemies for SL? Err no, too easy to abuse. In a way, Soullight represents your relation with the law and citizens, not the factions.

Also I want to ask you something. Do you read any of the posts in these forums, the dev-updates or even play this game? At this time I'm not convinced you do.

[Kame]

(...)
Killing enemies for SL? Err no, too easy to abuse. In a way, Soullight represents your relation with the law and citizens, not the factions.(...)

Wrong. Soullight represent a runner's obedience to the Faction-Related rules of the game. It has nothing to do with the (RP) laws of Neocron. You can even kill a 0/2 with impunity, for as long as he is of an enemy faction.

Since you are penalized for not respecting the faction relations, it's only fair and seems somewhat natural that you get rewarded for respectibg them.

Of course the implementation NEEDS to take into account the SL-bitching, or the intentional repetitive kill of an enemy runner with purpose of gaining SL.

That can and should be avoided with some coding rules.

(...)
Also I want to ask you something. Do you read any of the posts in these forums, the dev-updates or even play this game? At this time I'm not convinced you do.

Let me return that question to you brammers.

[Brammers]

Wrong. Soullight represent a runner's obedience to the Faction-Related rules of the game. It has nothing to do with the (RP) laws of Neocron. You can even kill a 0/2 with impunity, for as long as he is of an enemy faction.

Then why do copbots shoot me for having -SL? And who do the copbots represent?

Let me return that question to you brammers.

Of course I do.

[Arista Barret]

Soul light is your obedience to following the rules of faction roleplay. CopBots enforce these rules less than other players waiting to steal your loot. The problem is not the cops. The problem is not factions. The problem is an unbalanced system with regard to criminals' penalties and choice of playstyle limited to strict roleplay. Soul Light does not protect nubs. It actually makes them a better target. Maybe a dev can confirm the work being done to fix this?

[Drachenpaladin]

Then why do copbots shoot me for having -SL? And who do the copbots represent?

You are not just shot by copbots. You are shot by any law-enforcing entity. DoY City Guards, FA turrets, MB guards and so on. SL is a faction spanning system.

[Doc Holliday]

Faction guards in general Drach. I can confirm this.

Pinky just hold fire on this till we see the next changes for the SL system ok. thats my only suggestion.

If Soullight is to be awarded for killing enemy runners then it needs to be unanimous across zones and base rank must be applied as a check to see if it awards or not. I would set a limit to this also like the old epic kills with combat rank parameters.

example. runner A has base rank 55. He finds Runner B who is red and has a base rank 48. He thinks aah easy kill and goes for the gank. He wins but because its more than 5 ranks below he doesnt gain soullight. In a turn of the tables one day runner b is out levelling and sees runner A who is now capped with a 63 base rank and B is 55 and has some upgraded guns and goes in for the fight. Runner A dies. Runner B gets his sweet revenge AND gets some bonus SL because he is has killed a higher rank player.

This avoids abuse of someone rolling an sl bitch and gr ganking it.

[eNTi]

This avoids abuse of someone rolling an sl bitch and gr ganking it.

no it doesn't. just level a droner (cap in 3 days) and ask for good money per sl fix. woc him for good measure. level con for free. get rich in no time.

[Doc Holliday]

no it doesn't. just level a droner (cap in 3 days) and ask for good money per sl fix. woc him for good measure. level con for free. get rich in no time.

Then make it a bannable offense on top of that.

the only person who pays is dumb and if the person getting paid gets banned well too bad. Alternatively instead of being a complete and utter nub you could go out into the wastes and actually try and fight and kill people to repair your soullight if it was bad. This makes for more people out in the wastes and not zonehugging in pepper park 1 with a dual logged ppu. They wont be going in to caves ganking people because they end up back where they started or maybe even worse off and they wont be ganking noobs because they wont be rewarded for this. It is also WAAAAAAAAAY more fun than trying to do 100 recycle missions in the safety of a HQ or even a load of rat/roach/spider/aggressor missions in what ever dungeon you chose to frequent

In the mean time you show me a better idea. You are quick to put an idea down but show me you can come up with an alternative. Consider it a challenge.

[Dropout]

I like the idea Doc.
Although maybe put a 30min "cooldown" on SL gain from each enemy.
(Kill one enemy - dont get SL from HIM durring the next 30mins).

This should pretty effectively stop it from being exploited.

Even if Things are bannable, people will still try to get away with it.. I see people leveling CON in not-so-legit ways pretty much every day - just to give an example..

[William Antrim]

Cool down is good.


As long as the combat rank is taken into account I like it. Even if the player just uses a lower TL weapon to fight (a disadvantage to him) then it will be fairer in the long run.

It would be expensive to pay another player to die and get rezzed over and over also so that would hopefully eliminate people being paid to die (a la the the original Epic Run days) except in the most extreme cases.

The only other thing you would have to take into account (aside from the obvious rise in GR camping) is that Op zones would need to benefit from a HUGE increase in soullight/faction sympathy.

Got bad sl - hack an op! This is what everyone wants in NC anyway so why not give the players an incentive to fight at ops?

[eNTi]

Then make it a bannable offense on top of that.

the only person who pays is dumb and if the person getting paid gets banned well too bad. Alternatively instead of being a complete and utter nub you could go out into the wastes and actually try and fight and kill people to repair your soullight if it was bad. This makes for more people out in the wastes and not zonehugging in pepper park 1 with a dual logged ppu. They wont be going in to caves ganking people because they end up back where they started or maybe even worse off and they wont be ganking noobs because they wont be rewarded for this. It is also WAAAAAAAAAY more fun than trying to do 100 recycle missions in the safety of a HQ or even a load of rat/roach/spider/aggressor missions in what ever dungeon you chose to frequent

In the mean time you show me a better idea. You are quick to put an idea down but show me you can come up with an alternative. Consider it a challenge.

while i agree with your sentiment, there's hardly a way to distinguish between legal and illegal kill. finding that out might be quite the menial task for the devs.

cool down is better, but only delays the whole affair somewhat. there's no reason i can't have multiple chars doing with the same purpose. it's still exploitable.

[yavimaya]

Now look, seriously people this isnt hard, its so easy it basically doesnt even warrant discussion.
Have the large soullight hit for killing friendlies like now, have a soullight reward for killing enemy runners that has a counter of lets say 5, if the same enemy turns up anywhere in that "last 5 enemies killed" database, then you get no reward.
The reward should only be maybe 5% of the hit taken for killing any given runner, based on SL like the penalty is now.

Docs suggestion would compliment this well too.

This would atleast give a buffer of needing 20 kills per 1 friendly kill. If clans got together to have enough mules to get around this, surely such a large meeting would come to the attention of staff - more so in the future if they manage to grow and get more gms.