1. #61
    Registered User Strife's Avatar
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    If I understand you correctly, you are complaining that strong -SL will have a negative impact on your play style and fun in the game.
    Consider why SL exists in the first place and why making SL count again will also mean an increase in fun for other people (those getting ganked while talking to a trader in P3 or leveling up in a designated leveling area). I would say it is only fair to counterbalance this.
    Bring me negative impacts, just don't make the game a bloody chore to play.


    If you think thats "unfounded trash talk", please take a look at the current SL ruleset and try to pin point where exactly you think you *must* break the SL enforced PvP rules (and thus face -SL) to enjoy the game (I assume it is not simply a matter of wanting to gank anyone/anytime/anywhere _without_ consequences - but if that is the case, tough luck).
    The SL ruleset where my clan has lost tens of millions in items for low SL, more than most clans have earned? Where we've spent hours upon hours running missions to get out of red SL so we can play the game for fun?(We go red in p2 almost exclusively, where people go for consensual pvp/duels.)

    'Where I must do this'? I don't HAVE to kill people. I like to try play multiple play-styles and try new things. I started Money Shot because I wanted a pure RED SL clan like back in the old days where PK's played red SL and people didn't whine and throw the largest of tantrums, they asked for them to be hunted down and they were. I rather enjoyed people hunting down my droner in p2 despite dropping millions in stealth tools and drones. Again, big bad terrible pk clan did nothing but kill people engaging in PvP.

    If you think the SL's are rules that MUST be followed, then why don't you just disable PvP? Neocron is the PvP game I love because for the most part you can't run your mouth without consequences. Now it's even more open to deal with greens attacking greens and your choices will be either die, or lose SL for defending yourself. People will be free to shittalk because no one wants their game-play screeching to a halt.

    Again, people can continue to play any style they like and still get away with being a sociopathic criminal who does not give a shit about anyone or any rules, you will have to live with the negative consequences though
    This is not a reason or any kind of support for the reason for these changes. Why don't you add in perm death for red SL character that bans their IP address then just say "Oh well if you want to PK live with the consequences."

    I honestly don't think you understand the mentality of this community. These "rampant pkers" that kill EVERYONE regardless of faction DO NOT EXIST. I've leveled near 2 accounts of fighter characters in nearly every worthwhile zone. I've been killed only a few times, mostly by people who were my clans enemies anyway. I can't recall watching others being ganked more than a few times. And then there's the thing called a LAW ENFORCER chip that available for people wishing to not participate in pvp.

    The people complaining of rampant pking? The guy that was killed at MB bunker so he wouldn't loot the ENEMY clan's PPU belt that we killed. The newer character was shortly resurrected and APOLOGIZED to and explained as to why he was killed. He then continued to trash talk us and complain on IRC of 'gankers', despite being ressed and buffed for the <2 minutes of inconvenience.(he was idle inside the bunker doing nothing)


    How this has effected Money Shot, the clan with only -99 Red SL characters:

    We can still use our P2 apartments completely stocked with revenges(by completely i mean shit all because we're lazy)

    We can camp out CRP/Catlock cave and kill anyone unhindered with no consequences. TG cave is <2 minute flight. Same with any fire mob zones.

    Can camp and log out at Regents and kill people as desired, no consequences.


    This Anti-Red SL patch has done little to nothing to stop the actual RED SL characters. We just cant sweep the entire game shortly, which we NEVER did anyway.


    Sorry for the wall of text, i'm just trying to figure out the actual purpose of the patch. It doesnt effect the red SL's. If you're getting ganked while lvling it's simple a matter of put your LE in until you're ready to PvP, or be my personal hero and have my respect and find out how to overcome this obstacle instead of just whining because someone or something got in your way. Ganked by one guy in El Farid? There's 10 on OOC that will kill him for fun.

    Lastly, another problem is why I think it's a poor feature because traveling via vehicle nearly impossible to do without crashing, dying from NOTHING, long syncing out and logging in without your vehicle in the middle of the zone. I've honestly yet to make a trip in the wastes more than 5 zones without issues.
    Last edited by Strife; 07-05-13 at 02:10.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strife View Post
    If you think the SL's are rules to be followed, then why don't you just disable PvP?
    Yes - we think that SL is a game mechanic that is with us for a purpose and following these rules must be encouraged (as for why, see the last post).
    At the same time, Neocron largely retains an open world and encouraging a behavior is not remotely the same as enforcing it.

    Neocron is the PvP game I love because for the most part you can't run your mouth without consequences. Now it's even more open to deal with greens attacking greens and your choices will be either die, or lose SL for defending yourself. People will be free to shittalk because no one wants their game-play screeching to a halt.
    Abusing SL mechanics to grief other players has been an issue in the past and with the renewed relevancy of this game mechanic, it is not unlikely that it will again become a topic that needs to be addressed. I encourage everyone to look into the possible scenarios of abuse and come forward with feasible solutions that can be implemented to address them. I am confident such suggestions will be met with the appropriate attention.

    As for the rest of that post, please decide on wether the changes are so horrible that you are brutally forced to stop PvP ("I don't HAVE to kill people", "why don't you just disable PvP?", "Why don't you add in perm death for red SL character that bans their IP address then just say 'Oh well if you want to PK live with the consequences.'") or wether nothing has changed anyway ("We can still use our P2 apartments", "We can camp out CRP/Catlock cave and kill anyone unhindered with no consequences, TG cave is <2 minute flight. Same with any fire mob zones, Can camp and log out at Regents and kill people as desired, no consequences. This Anti-Red SL patch has done little to nothing to stop the actual RED SL characters.").

    I cannot help but see this as confirmation that the changes serve their purpose just about perfectly - making you keep all the freedom to do whatever you want, but at the same time discourage certain behavior by making it less comfortable.

    -M

  3. #63
    Registered User Strife's Avatar
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    I cannot help but see this as confirmation that the changes serve their purpose just about perfectly - making you keep all the freedom to do whatever you want, but at the same time discourage certain behavior by making it less comfortable.
    Served their purpose? Sorry, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. So my mass murderer, the character i've literally killed hundred(s) of runners with blatant disregard for faction standings is barely effected, yet this droner that just loss SL in regents has to go fix his SL and stop leveling because someone ran into his AoE at some point and died. I'm honestly asking you to show one instance where this actually helps the game. Every shitty way to screw people over with SL loss has just gained even more strength and given the "griefers" even stronger ammo to use against the community. Your patch literally accomplishes the opposite of what an SL fix should do.

    Don't get me wrong; i'm not that upset over this. and it's not THAT big of a deal, but I do however have a problem with further restrictions put in that hurt people unnecessarily, and don't fix the problem at hand. I'll still kill people on my droner as I see fit, i'll just P2 a lot less on Tank/rifle spy because I can't be bothered running 3 missions per soul light just to be able to enjoy some fights with other people in P2.

  4. #64

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    I disagree with strife, the mere fact that he's fighting and whining so hard against this change suggests that he very much is effected. And if he's truly not, then maybe we need harsher penalties, maybe disable access to any apartments anywhere in the game. I'm sure that would affect his red SL ganker/griefer clan.

    I think the patch will go far in preventing the mindless/pointless ganking that happens all too often throughout the NC world. This is also an incentive for those LE'd people to potentially pull their LE's. If they don't have to worry about being pointlessly ganked by an ally simply because the person was bored or just wanted to be a dick then they may actually try the game without the LE. I think you devs are going in the right diection with this, good work.

    I do agree with strife that the accidental SL loss should be addressed, maybe offer players a one time SL fix in case of an accident.

  5. #65
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    only issue with this patch is the disabling of sl gain automatically without the changes allegedly coming to the mission system.

    I'm sure some people have chars with bad sl who are now like oh fuck and will want to fix their sl but can't due to the current system of do a million missions and get 1 sl. At least auto gain would have been a one time amnesty of you like. However I'm sure people will come in and say tough shit. You messed up your sl now deal with it but this is my thoughts on it all.
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  6. #66
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    if you are in a team with other people in regants you don't lose sl right? i'm not sure how the aoe/team mechanics work tbh, i just recently pulled my le (thanks to the patch) and joined a pvp active clan. people who practically live in the regants boss room and refuse to party with the other people trying to level in there now have another reason short from not being selfish dicks. le'd players got the advantage though yet again.

    le'd players certainly need a big nerf and i suspect this coming soon. i still believe they should get lowered xp, money and NO rare part drops. this would change A LOT in this game.

  7. #67
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    if you are in a team with other people in regants you don't lose sl right? i'm not sure how the aoe/team mechanics work tbh, i just recently pulled my le (thanks to the patch) and joined a pvp active clan. people who practically live in the regants boss room and refuse to party with the other people trying to level in there now have another reason short from not being selfish dicks. le'd players got the advantage though yet again.

    le'd players certainly need a big nerf and i suspect this coming soon. i still believe they should get lowered xp, money and NO rare part drops. this would change A LOT in this game.
    Way to being short sighted. There are people in there trying to cap their INT but because they are so high level, teaming up means they almost get none.

    That is the reason I don't team in Regants. I am a CR 72 APU with capped PSI. I'm trying to cap my INT (which is only at 88 still, that's how extremely slow it goes) and if I team up I only get 100.000 per run. If I don't team up I get about 250.000 per run if I am lucky.

    Surely you understand that you can't always think about others and sometimes you have to think about your own XP pool?

    Edit:

    You're calling me a selfish dick for the above. That really proofs to me your short sightedness. I've seen people like you in Regants, they will try and charge mobs into me just because I won't team up. Ridiculous.

    If these people charge mobs into me, that means that if I had my LE out, they would be trying to kill me constantly. That's why I keep my LE in. Because people will always be looking for a reason to attack eachother.

    I don't have a PVP end-game intention, so I don't see why I should pull me LE while leveling and put my self in the spot where others can attack me. I had a terrible time when I took the LE out in Regants on my previous char, because people will always find a reason to kill me even though I'm one of the friendliest persons to play with :-/
    Last edited by SilentEye; 07-05-13 at 10:46.

  8. #68
    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    le'd players certainly need a big nerf and i suspect this coming soon. i still believe they should get lowered xp, money and NO rare part drops. this would change A LOT in this game.
    should they? :P

    (#183 is already deployed with LE changes as Zoltan stated ingame yesterday evening)

  9. #69
    tanks sind imba ;P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strife View Post
    ... So my mass murderer, the character i've literally killed hundred(s) of runners with blatant disregard for faction standings is barely effected, yet this droner that just loss SL in regents has to go fix his SL and stop leveling because someone ran into his AoE at some point and died. ...
    i think strife makes a very simple and valid point no one actually tackles but rather accuses him of whining.

    and again everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room. multiple free accounts. anonymously shared gank accounts. double log ins..

    talking about "consequences".. what a joke..

  10. #70
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentEye View Post
    Way to being short sighted. There are people in there trying to cap their INT but because they are so high level, teaming up means they almost get none.

    That is the reason I don't team in Regants. I am a CR 72 APU with capped PSI. I'm trying to cap my INT (which is only at 88 still, that's how extremely slow it goes) and if I team up I only get 100.000 per run. If I don't team up I get about 250.000 per run if I am lucky.

    Surely you understand that you can't always think about others and sometimes you have to think about your own XP pool?

    Edit:

    You're calling me a selfish dick for the above. That really proofs to me your short sightedness. I've seen people like you in Regants, they will try and charge mobs into me just because I won't team up. Ridiculous.

    If these people charge mobs into me, that means that if I had my LE out, they would be trying to kill me constantly. That's why I keep my LE in. Because people will always be looking for a reason to attack eachother.

    I don't have a PVP end-game intention, so I don't see why I should pull me LE while leveling and put my self in the spot where others can attack me. I had a terrible time when I took the LE out in Regants on my previous char, because people will always find a reason to kill me even though I'm one of the friendliest persons to play with :-/
    so you only partying as long as it serves your own purposes makes:

    a. you "one of the friendliest persons to play with",
    b. me short sighted?

    this logic is bullet proof. i think your neocast fame is getting to your head.

  11. #71
    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invi View Post
    i think strife makes a very simple and valid point no one actually tackles but rather accuses him of whining.

    and again everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room. multiple free accounts. anonymously shared gank accounts. double log ins..

    talking about "consequences".. what a joke..
    Because there is no such thing

    I killed a LOT of green and yellow runners in Regants with my Melee Tank. I dropped from 60 Soullight to 10 Soullight while killing like 10 people or more.
    I killed a green lowlevel newbie char with my PE in Pepper Park and had a SL drop of 3(!) Points!
    You can't tell me that you get accidentally to a minus SL value. You will have to be either completely stupid or you WANT to have low SL.

  12. #72
    English Lead Moderator, Community Consultant Nidhogg's Avatar
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    Stick to the discussion points and less of the Ad Hominems.
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  13. #73
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    so you only partying as long as it serves your own purposes makes:

    a. you "one of the friendliest persons to play with",
    b. me short sighted?

    this logic is bullet proof. i think your neocast fame is getting to your head.
    Don't pretend you know me

    I've leveled my character in Regants as a PPU all the way to PSI level 85 and INT level 75. I've helped many people and I don't care running to Regants to revive someone either.

    But at some point I needed a change of pase and so I did, who are you to judge me for calling me selfish?

    I spend more time broadcasting NeoCast then I level, hell I level a lot slower because of that but I don't mind, as long as I have fun. However, when I am leveling, I try to make it as fast as possible because I miss out a lot already. But sure, you call me selfish all you want.

    Let me know your in-game character names so I can steer clear of you and stay out of your way.

  14. #74
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nabbl View Post
    Because there is no such thing

    I killed a LOT of green and yellow runners in Regants with my Melee Tank. I dropped from 60 Soullight to 10 Soullight while killing like 10 people or more.
    I killed a green lowlevel newbie char with my PE in Pepper Park and had a SL drop of 3(!) Points!
    You can't tell me that you get accidentally to a minus SL value. You will have to be either completely stupid or you WANT to have low SL.
    this needs to be addressed. you start out with 0 sl. taking out your le at that stage is basically suicide.

  15. #75
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    this needs to be addressed. you start out with 0 sl. taking out your le at that stage is basically suicide.
    No you start with 10 Soullight. It's only suicide for your SL if you decide to kill people.

    If you want to kill players, you can but you live with the penalties for ganking. Crime should not pay, and it doesn't in this game.

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