Thread: Kamikaze Drones

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  1. #31
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    reduce the effectiveness of kamikaze drones and replace them with a valid, worthwhile, working and fun alternative. For example the Raptor or PN drone.
    There was a time when a good drone pilot could chase a newb out of pepper with a nail gatlin, They don;t even sell those babies anymore. /wistful

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    You cant add healers into the equation to make your point. You lose credibility if you need to refer to the ppu that every player has following them around. Because plenty dont and you cannot add the ppu effect into a balancing discussion. It just mires it down into a whine about ppus.
    Why not? Surely I can add a PPU to a situation, otherwise you are balancing a group based game on solo based play. If you take everyone as not having shields and heals then a lot of things are OP. If you take it as everyone can have or SHOULD have if they are gunna cry about balance, then the mechanics shift dramatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    You cant quote something and then say it is half true while agreeing with the same point in your previous quote. That just confuses anyone who is not you.
    That would be the half true part of it. That yes in some situations it is true, in others not. The droner has very little risk but also very little chance of getting any reward. The risk being the loss of PA, Holovest or drones that come from 400k or so down to 3.5k. However as said every drone they fire is costing them money while others don't have the same cost. Equally most of the time what is the average joe going to drop if they got killed... Not the weapon in slot 1. So likely chance is PA or stealth tool or WOC weapon that can be quickly replaced.
    However as stated the likely chance of the player who died to the droner having their belt hacked is lower than the chance of the belt of the droner being hacked (if people think what is in their is worth anything).

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    You cant talk about how a tank can run away from a fight because drones move faster than people. The tank in any other situation has the chance to fight back and potentially kill his opponent when he is attacked. Versus droners this is simply not the case.
    Yes I agree a drone can move faster than a person. However a kami drone goes boom, someone notices the health loss, they in almost all cases in city sectors can find at least 1 exit within 10-15 seconds of where they are or of course just hide behind an elevator door or something where the droner, who while in drone has no local list so will not find you as they cant open doors.
    So lets turn this around... The tank comes from P3 -> P2 or the PP1 -> P2 and finds the droner. You say that the tank cant just run away cos the drone moves faster. Well the droner even if he releases the drone as the first sign of him getting attacked will not be able to get away and has no chance of running or fighting back. In fact as I said before like this, the drone has 99% chance of death, while the tank can if he is looking at what he is doing will normally have a good chance to run, hide, heal, try to track him down or zone out.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    The silent hunter sniper has to be in line of sight and visual range of his target - but what is the relevance? comparison?
    As said in my argument, the silent hunter has 0 sound with it, nor do you get a flash or anything on your char when you are hit with it. The only way to notice a silent hunter shooting you is either seeing the person shooting yourself or by noticing a sudden loss of HP. I was saying at least with the drone you will always get the warning "BANG" sound and the health loss. A silent hunter on a hill or upper ledge can pick people off without anyone knowing they are there from distance. Yes they need the LOS but LOS doesn't mean you have to be really close.

    Your last point about cash is truthfully a bit of a reach. I do not think anyone who actively pvps thinks about how much money they have before they go fighting, but I will humour the point and counter it by talking about the expense of the drugs the rest of us take to compete in pvp - which you do not need as a droner.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Believe me when I say this. Drugs are more expensive than drones.
    The most people run with is lets say 4 drugs at 3k each for the 10min ones, maybe 1k for a 5min one? vs if your statement (what I mirrored) of a drone every lets say 15-20 seconds. You spend 12k drugs per 10mins max, vs 3k drone every 20 seconds so 9k a minute... Plz check math before saying stupid stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    My final point is to politely remind you that the aim of this thread is to reduce the effectiveness of kamikaze drones and replace them with a valid, worthwhile, working and fun alternative. For example the Raptor or PN drone.
    Here is the first post you made
    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Reduce the damage by 50% and make them AOE an area with a tick effect afterwards please. I want them to be useful for something but not the one hit kill they are now. I realise this will prove unpopular with some people but I want to see it be discussed.
    No the idea of a brainport post is to discuss ideas. Your idea in my opinion is based on a flawed idea of Kami are to powerful. That is why I wanted proof that kami are to strong in a well thought out post that contained logical points that are hard or impossible to counter. In this post there was no mention until 12 posts in
    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    For the record I am all in favour of bringing back PN drones to their old school standard. In my mind a PN drone should be doing damage akin to a healing light (as its closest counterpart) but thats for another thread, thanks.
    I know most points are hard to reach this point, and there will always be someone who can just say "no that's not true" type of stuff. But if they cant back it up with a logical or mathematical evidence then the point can be countered.
    The current argument that kami are to strong is still open for discussion and if they are to strong by how much are they to strong by, or is it only situational that they are to strong. Some droners say that kami are OP, others not. Most of the people who say they are OP are however just those who are being killed by them by a team that has been working on tactics and communicate well with each other to get near perfect execution.

  3. #33
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Picking out individual situations and applying logic to them "in that instance, on that day" does not help the situation either. You are trying to micromanage the variable factors in order to support evidence.

    The "most people" sweeping generalisations do not help the subject at hand either and the general pulling at other examples of how broken other parts of the game are to say that Revenge drones are NOT broken is just a pointless waste of time. Your arguments do nothing but provide a reason to reply and explain the flawed logic behind them.

    Adding ppus to the equation is the most boneheaded idea I ever heard. You are talking about a WHOLE other player.

    Balancing 1v1 is the first priority, trying to balance ppus is again a whole other thread.

    The drugs comment - I can just see the frustration coming out of the keyboard so much that you didnt quite manage to quote the proper post. It is a reach at best. I do not think anyone regards money as an important part of pvp until they get down to their last 50k or so.

    For the record if I had said in the opening post boost PN drones etc and provided a solution there would have been no debate. Part of the science of good discussion is not putting everything out there in your opening statement. Lawyers do not reveal case-shattering details on day one. I am by no means a lawyer but I feel this is a pertinent point. Twelve posts in is a reasonably healthy discussion in my mind.

    Anyway, thank you for taking part in the discussion.
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  4. #34
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    If they made the drone have very few hit points to reflect its fragility and make it single target this would be much more advantageous to everyone. The droner still has a risk to his meatsack but the target can still defend against the weapon. I think everyone wins at this. The droner would still need to be sharp to get off more drones to kill the target before they find his body but at least the target now has a fighting chance.


    gonna put this here because the other thread on the same subject has become a bit diluted.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  5. #35
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    Faid had a great idea that they stay the same but give you 40% si so people couldn't spam them, this would let droners have a big hitting tool but not able to spam it.

    As for people trying to say they shouldn't fix the kami drone cos its the only good thing a droner has, that just means the other drones need a balance it doesn't mean droners should get to keep a 1 shot ultra death weapon. The better option would be to suggest how you think the kami drone should be balanced and add ways to improve other less useful drones or make another thread for that.

    On droners, well the issue has always been that they warp all over and often wont even appear on your screen till a while after they showed up, combine this with how much damage they take to kill and it makes them hard to deal with in terms of actually fighting, and of course everybody has 5 billion of every drone (slight exaggeration maybe but not far off =p ) so nobody would ever bother to attack a drone they need to find the droner. As such fighting a droner involves the drone following you around while you try to find the droner who will stealth the second you get close to move to another spot. This makes balancing droners a VERY tough job.
    "You're fat, and you look like you should be, but you're not."

  6. #36

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    the SI is a great idea tbh, when other drones blow up by being killed you get Syn Impairment. This would help combat the spammer problem.

    And giving the drone low hp would be a feasible option IF drones in game telemetry displayed correctly on peoples screens but they pop around at best, half the time youll see them at safe-spots and they are in reality no where near the location

  7. #37
    Bedroom Armour Keyboard Sword Load_HeavyLoad's Avatar
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    Would if not be possible to implement some sort of dare i say it 'cooldown' until you can use another Kami drone, some sort of drug effect that means you are unable to launch Kami drones for a certain length of time (tiered with the TL of the drone?) that way droners can still launch another drone or move away after detonation.

    On another note i do think kami's should be unstable enough that if you bump into something it detonates

  8. #38
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Load_HeavyLoad View Post
    On another note i do think kami's should be unstable enough that if you bump into something it detonates
    while this could work in a lag free environment this won't work in neocron.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    while this could work in a lag free environment this won't work in neocron.
    True, maybe lowering the hp of the drone to such an extent whereby one or two hits could pop it would be an alternative as mentioned earlier (provided you can see the drone) as that is buggy too

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