Being a criminal (-SL)

[demonssword]

as always it's the players who want to grief who cause issues. at the moment it's that way, that if you take out the le you are basically saying: i want to start a fight, so come at me! there's no reasoning with certain players they will just trash talk you into leaving the game for being bad at pvp, when in reality, all they did was stealth, run behind you, kill you with a dissy, stealth again. i've seen this happening where small groups do nothing but ravage the sectors attacking anything and anyone who was stupid enough to take out their le. unless we get those people under SOME control there's no reason to take out your le and that's why there need to be harsh consequences for -sl players. people who complain about the changes are most likely the same people that constantly want to gank everyone all the time, for no reason and who also cry the loudest to remove the le from the game.

it's all well an fine to talk about limiting play styles of people if they can't use their "power" with reason. killing for the sake of killing most of the time is just fun for one side of fight.

People who rise to the bait of trash talkers need to learn to "man up" or learn to use the ignore button... or even stranger than all of those people could choose to avoid... (I better talk quietly as its a secret) going in to Plaza 2 what is purely there for PVP in this game ATM. There is no reason to go P2 outside of PVPing or 1 faction epic I think needs you to see someone there.

Surely if the argument is negative SL means you are betraying your faction (as you only get -SL from killing people allied to your faction) and this means cops will shoot you, GRs don't work and nor to apartment lifts. The why do the cops shoot you? the cops are bots made by City Admin, surely they should like in NC2 shoot anti city factions. Why shouldn't the lifts work? who runs the lifts and somehow stops you from using them. Same with the GRs, who owns them, who is stopping people from hacking the controls.

The negatives from having -SL should be that your faction and allied factions should be annoyed with you and somehow punishing you in some way, as that is the reason you are at -SL. So unless its your faction giving up your details to the NCPD saying "We need to have a talk with this guy, arrest him so we can try to get him under control." But why would TG say that to them...

[Deus Ex Machina]

[...]Surely if the argument is negative SL means you are betraying your faction (as you only get -SL from killing people allied to your faction) and this means cops will shoot you, GRs don't work and nor to apartment lifts. The why do the cops shoot you? the cops are bots made by City Admin, surely they should like in NC2 shoot anti city factions. Why shouldn't the lifts work? who runs the lifts and somehow stops you from using them. Same with the GRs, who owns them, who is stopping people from hacking the controls.

The negatives from having -SL should be that your faction and allied factions should be annoyed with you and somehow punishing you in some way, as that is the reason you are at -SL. So unless its your faction giving up your details to the NCPD saying "We need to have a talk with this guy, arrest him so we can try to get him under control." But why would TG say that to them...

Just to be sure, you mean Red SL shouldn't mean anything for Copbots if you are an enemy of the city, for example, a Twilight Guardian. Because you got it for shooting friends of Twilight Guardian, who cares? So if It got that right:

Fair Point.
But then again, if we view NCPD as direct City Admin workers (from which they are at least mechanical different at the moment) its a Twilight Guardian, who cares whom he shot, then the Copbots should kill him anyway. And the whole GR network within the city should be closed to him, regardless of SL. And I am sure there is more.

And then there is the problem that SL is abstract and measures how good you follow the rules, not exactly whom you shoot. You can shoot everyone you like in Outpost sectors. You can shoot many people in the Wastelands and Outskirt Sectors.
No / low punishment. Or how to calculate the SL when its not as clear as TG.

Say... Biotech. Biotech can safely shoot Tangents and vice versa. Shouldn't the NCPD be after people killing upstanding citizens? But no, they only prevent it when they shoot in their presence, and don't care about it otherwise.

So it really boils down to the explanation why the Copbots act as they do. And that might be just because they put everyone down they get word of that it is a shooting, killing maniac, that doesn't care about its targets. That one would be a threat regardless where he comes from.

[zii]

Cher tous,

One would be either rich, well endowed, or daft, to weld rare guns without a safe slot and a 5 item drop. Every death costs millions, and seldom are antiestablishmentarians rich enough to recover financially. Someone operating outside of the established system should be afforded a fairer chance.

Allowing AB as a player faction is an unviable alternative, since this means adhering to the established faction and SL system.

XOXO

( P.S I want to kill any DRE or NEXT runners a few times for money.... please apply within )

[Arista Barret]

Cher tous,

One would be either rich, well endowed, or daft, to weld rare guns without a safe slot and a 5 item drop. Every death costs millions, and seldom are antiestablishmentarians rich enough to recover financially. Someone operating outside of the established system should be afforded a fairer chance.

Allowing AB as a player faction is an unviable alternative, since this means adhering to the established faction and SL system.

XOXO

( P.S I want to kill any DRE or NEXT runners a few times for money.... please apply within )

Dude...i fucking love you. You have just stated the truth in a much better way than I ever could. PLEASE keep posting and fighting for the game [EDITED].

[eNTi]

Cher tous,

One would be either rich, well endowed, or daft, to weld rare guns without a safe slot and a 5 item drop. Every death costs millions, and seldom are antiestablishmentarians rich enough to recover financially. Someone operating outside of the established system should be afforded a fairer chance.

Allowing AB as a player faction is an unviable alternative, since this means adhering to the established faction and SL system.

XOXO

( P.S I want to kill any DRE or NEXT runners a few times for money.... please apply within )

if that were true or even relevant dying a few times would basically solve EVERYTHING because you would simply not be able to pvp any more unless you got some care bears supporting you losing millions on an hourly basis.

[Arista Barret]

if that were true or even relevant dying a few times would basically solve EVERYTHING because you would simply not be able to pvp any more unless you got some care bears supporting you losing millions on an hourly basis.

It is true and so is the loss of freedom to play along with people willing to even log-in.

[William Antrim]

The problem is that (on the flip side of this argument) if you let people run rampant all day long wantonly killing everything in their path just because they can you will very soon find yourself with noone to kill. Either they will all be LE'd or they will all be playing other games.

[Faid]

The problem is that (on the flip side of this argument) if you let people run rampant all day long wantonly killing everything in their path just because they can you will very soon find yourself with noone to kill. Either they will all be LE'd or they will all be playing other games.

This is already starting to happen, hopefully this new patch can solve some of these problems.

[Netphreak]

Does killing an enemy of your faction give you back SL? If so how's that calculated?

[Strife]

This is already starting to happen, hopefully this new patch can solve some of these problems.

People really quit before of dissy/ak being too strong?

[Faid]

I would say yes they did. OP Fights have turned into all dissy spies killing everything in seconds then stealthing away. That certainly alienated a portion of the community. The population has been slowly decreasing for the past few months now, things feel like they have been stalled somehow, interest has been somewhat low.

Communication, especially from the dev team, feels almost non-existent. I know full well that they are currently "working on things", but it would help to know what and why. People will ask me "whats happening with neocron?" and I have to reply "I don't really know". I can't even get a answer to something as simple as what we can or can't have as clan ranks.

Undoubtedly the devs are working on things, that much is evident with the patches every few months or so. But while they secretly work on stuff people are losing interest and leaving. The amount of people that I know personally, either in clan or not, that have recently left is alarming, and there's not much I can do to convince them to stay because we have no information about whats happening.

[CritiNator]

People really quit before of dissy/ak being too strong?

I'm not logging in before the new patch and i know many others, who left the game, but are now waiting for patch.

[Doc Holliday]

I haven't quit just took a break as did the rest of the guys. No issue with the game by and large but more the lack of a community willing to fight. even for some fun. NF with clan mates is good but it doesn't take long to find out whose good and who isn't and then it becomes an exercise in tedium that only the random encounters in the wastes can satiate.


Demon your logic in your post is flawed too by the way. You (and others) continually seem to think of TG as the "bad guys" and think that somehow its them who will cause problems. TG to me is a private army of loyal supporters who are not so covert in their day to day lives in an antigovernment stance vs the Government of Neocron. Revolutionists are not Anarchists.

Some of the people playing this game always use them to cite poor examples of how things should be. Anarchy breed are the anarchists. they are the ones who kill wantonly and openly against anyone whos not them. Black dragon will do it if theres a dollar in it im sure but TG. In my eyes they will kill for their cause. A bit like the freedom fighters of modern times (Che Guevera etc in south america. Trying to avoid this becoming religious/political debate here so dont draw this quote out and discuss it please just understand its an example)

Now. Soullight is in its essence an indication of a particular stance. Red SL people are bad people essentially however in this game as it can only be reflected by killing someone and not stealing,lying,cheating,scamming etc then the only way to lose it is to be killing the wrong people.

Unfortunately i dont know if the legend that is alduin or anyone who helps him (i assume its not a solo effort. even more props if it is) could make a system to recognise all the bad stuff that people do in nc and make THAT affect soul light.

So people. when discussing soullight etc i think it would be more pertinent if you could open up your eyes a little bit more and be a little more imaginative in its application because there's so much seriously flawed logic that gets posted its hurting my brain.

Think of the old D and D rules for personas/allignments. Chaotic neutral, Lawful good, chaotic good etc. Thats kinda what soullight was intended on aiming for (imo. i shouldnt need to add this but im covering my own arse because someones gonna take me to task on it)

the more "evil" you are the worse your soullight gets as you kill all the wrong people. The city admin (if anyone follows the backstory) dont really give two shits about the populace by and large and will execute people on suspicion of treason vs the government. (dont believe me? Run the epic for CA) why wouldnt they execute someone on sight if they were a "known" terrorist? i put known in brackets here because its known/suspected.

Now. As to the why someone would choose this life. Why the hell not. Its a new experience. Living out of the jail or in outzone or the wastes possibly venturing to pepper park risking it all (with a red belt drop) just to fetch supplies or going to jeriko or one of the other ops (i still feel op grs should be opened. Open them up to RED players perhaps?) to get ammo armour or what ever. trying to find a trader who will work for you.

Keep in mind here that red sl chars will get killed by faction guards as much as copbots etc. If your gonna live this life its not for the carebear faint hearted. its extreme in its being. it will also make for some really fun roleplay.

It would also serve to bring back another great RP role. that of a bounty hunter chasing them down where ever possible. More pvp in the wastes. Red chars band together. Bounty hunters band together. New alliances are formed. Maybe a third group is chasing the hunters chasing the hunted because they have their own agenda.

Its putting the RP back in the game and is totally pvp related.

Im gonna go out on a limb now and make another suggestion. This will be guaranteed to be controversial.

LOWER the penalties of belt drops for red chars. Make it so that at -90 or more 5 items drop not ten. Have it so the belts open earlier so you dont need to hack but have more items drop in stages. Its swinging back towards a fuller loot system and will "hopefully" encourage people to get out there in the wastes and fight and not just stand in regants/mb bunker/el farid with their precious law enforcer in and drone away because without this excitement they too will fuck off to more involving pve games and the game will grow stale for them too.

now tell me im wrong?

[SilentEye]

I completely support Doc's post! Very well written, constructive and in my opinion true. I just hope people take the time to read it instead of responding with anger, with the result that it's not really "read".

Damn you Australians are a smart bunch

[nabbl]

... wall of text...

Absolutely awesome post here!

Another thing which I can add here is, that you cannot play that lowcost red-SL char anymore.
I had one on Mars with whom I used a Tsunami Epic setup or Tangent Speed Gun Setup. Since the Evo2.2 changes noone of them are worth shooting with anymore.

Techlevel is king, weapons like disruptor or AK47 drop my PE in seconds regardless of my CON-Setup.
Playing the lonesome wolf who lives like 4 seconds against two Dissy Spies is absolutely pointless. Others will kill you easily and you won't do any damage at all with your Epic Weapon.
I'd like to have this changed. I want to play my "badass"-char again...