[T#185/186] Testserver Patch Discussion

[D:I]

Nice changes. Nuff said.

Well..actually not.
Negative SL does not equal to you being an outlaw/gangster.
You want to be that? Be a Black Dragon, Tsunami, Twilight Guardian, whatever.
Having Negative SL equals to you being a "chaotic evil" homicidal maniac-cyber psycho. In Cyberpunk(TM) this would mean that the goddamn police are hunting you with the intent of "shoot to kill". You know CybEx and all that fun stuff.

You killed allied/friendly/own faction people to get your SL to where it is now, if you dont want to deal with the aftermath, just don't do that stuff.
If you are in the Mafia, you don't shoot Fat-Tony because you dont like [insert what you don't like about him here] because that would probably upset your peers, who might not have a problem with him. Thats not how organized crime works. Thats how homicidal maniacs work.
And believe it or not but regardless of the social structure, homicidal maniacs usually get put down.

You guys should rejoice that all you have to deal with is is not being able to enter your P1 appartement while the police is broadcasting your APB on national television.

[BlueRobot]

I think a lot of people don't know what they talk about here. I haven't actually seen people going red intentionally on Titan since it's start and only very few on the old servers for years.

In almost every case i know of, people got red because of accidently shooting greens in fights and not being teamed or because of people intentionally trying to get killed by crossfire with 0hlt chars.

I lost some SL yesterday because I killed a neutral guy in P2 after he killed me when i was 50hp after a duel. I havent lost any SL before that for months, but I'm not at 100 because things like that happen from time to time.

Since red SL players don' t seem to be a problem on Titan, I really don't understand where these changes are coming from. They are going to hurt players who get red by accident, try to defend themselfs or get griefed by 0hlt guys. The only ones who really exploit the -sl systems are kami droners in P2, who aren't going to be hurt by the changes, because they need an apt in p2 anyway to lame with maximum efficiency.

Don't get me wrong though, I think SL needs a rework, and I like part of the changes, like the "no apt in safezones" or part of the GR changes.

But not all GRs should be blocked for example, and something needs to be done to make red SL actually playable with high risks, instead of "You meanie got red SL, but we can't really ban you for it, so fuck you and have a life as shitty as possible"

[Faid]

I think a lot of people don't know what they talk about here. I haven't actually seen people going red intentionally on Titan since it's start and only very few on the old servers for years.
"

There is an entire clan of Red SL droners who's goal is to kill as many people as possible, and I know you know this because you roll with these people lol. Moneyshot is the name I believe, one of strifes fondest memories is of killing 4 people with one drone.

There is another clan of people who rejoice in the red SL playstyle, all the citizen 8 guys. We've run into them in regants and throughout the city. They roleplay Red SL chars. Its completely on purpose.

Very rarely is anyone red SL on accident. You have to kill multiple allies to achieve this. Yes the accidental SL hit will occur from time to time but it certainly doesn't happen as much as you're trying to make it out.

[Deus Ex Machina]

What just comes to me with that discussion about Red SL is: I don't know the current SL rules. Because I am a nice guy to my allies. So I know more or less what should happen in which zone for example, but not:
- How hard are different SL Hits? (For example SL 0 Kills SL 100, SL -50 Kills SL 50, SL 100 kills SL 0, and a few different ones, also for neutrals and allies alike, and sorted by sector rules (some sectors punish killing enemies I think?)
- Which sectors should punish which behaviour?
- What happens when your SL gets yellow, and at which point?
- What happens when it gets Red, and at whcih point?
- Are there steps in between?
- What is supposed to give you SL back?

It would be nice if there were a rule section in the forum, since I don't think that information could be found somewhere. And that some nice Admin / Dev could post the actual "rules" in there so that people who don't play around "accidently" getting red each day also know the point at hand a bit better

[BlueRobot]

So since my post seems to have been deleted, here it's again in short form:

What Faid said is not remotely true, there are no red SL players except for maybe some P2 kami droners, and those won't be affected by the changes. I don't play with any -SL guys either, nor do i know any. It seems he said that to take away from my credibility.

Also his clan are ninja hackers, so I don't know why he acts like a whiteknight here.

[Strife]

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[PsiCorps]

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[Doc Holliday]

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[Jack Silver]

It rly looks like a nice patch but in my opinion there is something missing. Im not sure but i think it wouldn't fix the spy army op fights. What about some more survivalability for tanks and apus? Maybe less work for ppus (give apu's antis back). I won't criticise the patch its fine. Just asking cause i love op fights with much fat tanks and apu's. spys are also cool but atm its like 4ppus+5spys teams and if the spys are good there is no way to kill them cause they stealth when a mosquito flies them into the face

[Nidhogg]

One person's posting rights in the Brainport has already been revoked so, please, no more flaming/trolling or going off topic. Thanks.

[Dropout]

It rly looks like a nice patch but in my opinion there is something missing. Im not sure but i think it wouldn't fix the spy army op fights. What about some more survivalability for tanks and apus? Maybe less work for ppus (give apu's antis back). I won't criticise the patch its fine. Just asking cause i love op fights with much fat tanks and apu's. spys are also cool but atm its like 4ppus+5spys teams and if the spys are good there is no way to kill them cause they stealth when a mosquito flies them into the face

Im sure something similar will come in a future patch. The Dissy problem just had to be addressed as fast as possible, which is probably why we see some balancing already.

[CritiNator]

Only thing i hate in this patch, is the fact that its not on retail. Do it fast..

[eNTi]

i think run speed is still way too high and stealth is broken, but this has it's own brainport thread already. this game simply doesn't feel like a proper fps. go play quake for a while and you see what i mean.

both stealth and run speed favor spies. nc 1 was monkocron. nc 2.2 is spyocron.

[demonssword]

i think run speed is still way too high and stealth is broken, but this has it's own brainport thread already. this game simply doesn't feel like a proper fps. go play quake for a while and you see what i mean.

both stealth and run speed favor spies. nc 1 was monkocron. nc 2.2 is spyocron.

Stealth being broken is a huge issue for a lot of people ATM. Both in the sense that it is an instant get out of danger free tool, but mainly that is it failing to apply. You use it and it puts your char in stealth on your screen and so cant use any items. However server side to everyone else you are completely visible and killable but cant do anything to protect yourself.
As for run speed. Run speed is fine now, in my opinion the soft cap might be a little low. Currently a spy can with a nice drug setup spend only about 5-6 levels in agi (25-30pts) and same on athletics and still run at softcap runspeed. I also see monks running at cap just with their dex PTS thrown only in to agi with nothing in athletics.

[Kanedax]

I think a lot of people don't know what they talk about here. I haven't actually seen people going red intentionally on Titan since it's start and only very few on the old servers for years.

In almost every case i know of, people got red because of accidently shooting greens in fights and not being teamed or because of people intentionally trying to get killed by crossfire with 0hlt chars.

I lost some SL yesterday because I killed a neutral guy in P2 after he killed me when i was 50hp after a duel. I havent lost any SL before that for months, but I'm not at 100 because things like that happen from time to time.

Since red SL players don' t seem to be a problem on Titan, I really don't understand where these changes are coming from. They are going to hurt players who get red by accident, try to defend themselfs or get griefed by 0hlt guys. The only ones who really exploit the -sl systems are kami droners in P2, who aren't going to be hurt by the changes, because they need an apt in p2 anyway to lame with maximum efficiency.

Don't get me wrong though, I think SL needs a rework, and I like part of the changes, like the "no apt in safezones" or part of the GR changes.

But not all GRs should be blocked for example, and something needs to be done to make red SL actually playable with high risks, instead of "You meanie got red SL, but we can't really ban you for it, so fuck you and have a life as shitty as possible"

The only times I've ever gone red was on purpose. One time was running around in p2 during an event spamming my wocet and the other times were when I started Pandemic Pharmaceuticals with a few other people and started ganking people all over the server.

I reiterate, it is difficult to get RED soul light on accident. -5 or 10 on accident is reasonable but come one, no one believes you got -35 sl on accident.