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  1. #31
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    If it was me I would remove ALL stealth above 10 seconds. Thats plenty of time to run back into Club Veronique IMO.
    careful. people might think you have a sense of humour bro.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    If it was me I would remove ALL stealth above 10 seconds. Thats plenty of time to run back into Club Veronique IMO.
    You cant just take zoneline PVP as basis for your analysis.
    What about the lone sniper for example, is he supposed to walk around in plane sight while looking for prey?
    The spy needs stealth because he has low resists and for now nanites suck and psi shields are kinda useless.
    How do you plan to compensate for that?

    If you only allow 10 sec stealth then you can remove it altogether.

    How did people deal with stealthers all these years and why is this suddenly such an issue?

  3. #33
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J@ck on Cr@ck View Post
    You cant just take zoneline PVP as basis for your analysis.
    What about the lone sniper for example, is he supposed to walk around in plane sight while looking for prey?
    The spy needs stealth because he has low resists and for now nanites suck and psi shields are kinda useless.
    How do you plan to compensate for that?

    If you only allow 10 sec stealth then you can remove it altogether.

    How did people deal with stealthers all these years and why is this suddenly such an issue?
    Jack the Music Man! I'm afraid you're missing the sarcasm on William's post. I don't think you should take what he said too seriously

  4. #34
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J@ck on Cr@ck View Post
    You cant just take zoneline PVP as basis for your analysis.
    What about the lone sniper for example, is he supposed to walk around in plane sight while looking for prey?
    The spy needs stealth because he has low resists and for now nanites suck and psi shields are kinda useless.
    How do you plan to compensate for that?

    If you only allow 10 sec stealth then you can remove it altogether.

    How did people deal with stealthers all these years and why is this suddenly such an issue?
    Blackmaze is partially correct. Only the last line of my post was sarcasm. Yes you can argue all you want that the Spy needs stealth. I do not think they do. I had a spy before stealth was invented and held a good account of myself.

    The APU is akin to a spy and he doesnt have stealth. How do you plan to compensate for that? I am playing devils advocate.

    Removing stealth altogether instead of having it capped at 10 seconds is a good way of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Psi shields are not useless but they do need to be addressed. Nannites need to make the spy have good solid resists (whilst they're active). These are external issues to the subject at hand however and should be disregarded when discussing stealth in my opinion. They ARE issues nonetheless and you are right to point them out. However keeping stealth as a band aid (plaster in english) to shore up these weaknesses is, in my mind, not a viable solution.

    I would rather see these things fixed and provide a more accurate and deadly combination of nannite use and stealth tool use for the average combat spy to make himself useful.

    The obliterator is useful for its 90 second reconnaissance and scouting role but in my opinion stealth 2 and 3 need to go. All they do is give the spy chance to get away and heal up. They are not used for their intended purpose - reconnaissance.

    They are used to get out of jail free.

    Ascension (the only APU I have seen actively playing and an experienced player) doesnt whine that his class needs stealth even though they have been shafted all over the place by the changes in 2.2. I do not see why spies should need it either.

    Stealth to me should provide a breathing space, not be a fight winner.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  5. #35
    für einen freien Geist Deus Ex Machina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    The obliterator is useful for its 90 second reconnaissance and scouting role but in my opinion stealth 2 and 3 need to go. All they do is give the spy chance to get away and heal up. They are not used for their intended purpose - reconnaissance.
    I like to disagree. I use Stealth 2 at the moment for reconnaissance. Might also use Stealth 3. I will always try to adapt my stealth time to the situation, and Stealthtime of Stealth 1 is very often too short, whereas all other Stealth times might in many situation be too long. Especially the Obliterator suffers from that, and it must always be considered that stealth cannot be exited easily. There sadly are too many situations where you have to wait for your stealth to count out quite some time before you start the next one, only that you can take another step, because you know you need longer to run by a few enemies AND find a hiding spot they cannot see at the moment. Cause when they see you only once, stealth is useless against NPCs.
    If I remeber right, on Mars I mainly used Obliterator for two things:
    1) Speak Propaganda in the Plaza 2 and annoying all those that came to kill me. (DoY Times)
    2) Infiltrate HQs and other safezones, as you cannot use the stealth tool a second time in them.

    All other situations went better with lesser stealth tools. And mostly I used Stealth for reconnaissence, not for battle.
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  6. #36
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Some one mentioned something about getting hit with something like a drug flash when you use stealth repeatedly.
    What if using stealth gave you some kind of radiation exposure that stayed in your body for a certain amount of time.
    If you re-stealth before it the radiation wears off the radiation concentration is then increased/doubled (think nanites).
    Doing that for the third time with for example a Stealth Tool 2 will result in the radiation concentration level being high enough for you to become crippled (or maybe just like a drug flash). You'll still be stealthed but severely handicapped.

    The reason I'm suggesting something like this because you can easily change the level /amount of radiation given by each stealth tool.
    Also you can easily set how long the radiation stays in your body. Higher tool makes it stay longer?

    To me this would hopefully allow things like the obilitorator to be used for reconnaissance, as you can plan to wait out the radiation somewhere.
    While people spamming it in combat will soon regret it.

    To me the hardest to balance would be the PE stealth tool, as it forces you to spam it due to its pathetic duration in order to make it of any use. Maybe if it took 5 uses within the time period the radiation lasts for that would be OK, but I'm not sure, just as I'm unsure how you would calculate the duration the radiation stays for. Possibly three times the duration of the stealth tool you're using.

    E.g. if you're using a 10 second stealth then you have radiation for 30 seconds (remember 10 of those seconds would be while you're stealthed)
    Scale this up you get the obilitorator.
    90 second stealth means you would be radiated for 270 seconds, or 180 seconds after the stealth ends.

  7. #37
    Registered User Strife's Avatar
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    There are already many ways ingame to combat stealthing. Just because YOU can't do it on your ONE character doesn't mean it needs fixed. (You, in a general sense)
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  8. #38
    Registered User Grogor's Avatar
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    I totally agree with strife. There are many ways to get a spy down when he uses stealth. And as a Spy you're mostly absolute helpless against that, you simply die. How about making stealth stronger, to compensate for this? Maybe add some sort of additional shielding when stealthed?
    Ok, the last part was just kidding, but I really think stealth is good the way it is.
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  9. #39
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogor View Post
    I totally agree with strife. There are many ways to get a spy down when he uses stealth. And as a Spy you're mostly absolute helpless against that, you simply die. How about making stealth stronger, to compensate for this? Maybe add some sort of additional shielding when stealthed?
    Ok, the last part was just kidding, but I really think stealth is good the way it is.
    Tbh, I'm largely fine with it as it is though some people do seem to spam if if they take any damage what so ever.
    I still think PE's need another stealth tool that lasts about 10 seconds to be fair.

    Anyhow, if stealth had to be changed I've given a suggestion as to a possible way to do it above.
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  10. #40
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Stealth is for cowards. Not every class has a way to fight it so no this is not a viable solution in my mind.


    I like the idea of stealth giving a radiation damage tick though. That would be good. Get a radiation stack every second you're in stealth that would be smart.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Get a radiation stack every second you're in stealth that would be smart.
    Why go through such troubles when you could simply die for activating stealth ...

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by J@ck on Cr@ck View Post
    Why go through such troubles when you could simply die for activating stealth ...
    I like that idea.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
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  13. #43
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by J@ck on Cr@ck View Post
    Why go through such troubles when you could simply die for activating stealth ...
    Because if you weren't spamming stealth/stealth whoring the radiation damage would be relatively negligible.
    Especially compared to a Cursed Soul to the face!
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  14. #44
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netphreak View Post
    Because if you weren't spamming stealth/stealth whoring the radiation damage would be relatively negligible.
    Especially compared to a Cursed Soul to the face!

    This.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Not every class has a way to fight it so no this is not a viable solution in my mind.
    I am assuming that you are talking about 1 on 1 situations and random PVP and not about OP figths since "Not every class has a way to fight it so no this is not a viable solution in my mind." is no valid argument during OP fights. Plasma weapons for example are able to hit people while stealthed. Then there are AOE weapons, winding argument comes to mind, which can "mark" spies and make them visible for everybody. And of course there is the true sight sanctum, USE IT!

    As for 1 on 1 situations ...
    I fail to see how these radiation stacks would enable, say a rifle PE (any class really) to kill a spy in 1 on 1 situations. I believe all these radiation stacks would achieve is discourage PVP, because spies would simply stealth sooner than they do now or they just stealth and run away.

    I get the feeling people are upset about the spies healing up during stealth, but you should keep in mind that spies cant use nanites during stealth and usually you dont have the time to inject yourself before stealthing when you are in the process of being killed. Even if nanites are still running while stealthing their duration is very short. All this means is that the person not stealthing can heal up even better than the spy.

    You could simply disable health regeneration during stealth, but again this would discourage PVP.

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