1. #61
    Registered User Strife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerRamjet View Post
    I was considering making a thread about fixing the symp/faction relation system. At the moment there's no real consequences to PKing anyone and everyone. The system certainly needs an overhaul.
    Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juppe View Post
    Faid, that idea is so bad.. That would just mean it would be much easier for you to go farm end game gear..you could do it 24/7 with your le droner without anyone interrupting in your own lovely instance..yeah recreate, recreat it so that your le wont work there. Dont understand why that bothers you so much. Those places are meant to be farmed in groups anyway..and the gear is for your unLed fighter so why not bring that along to farm.
    First off, I dont have an LE'd droner who farms anything. I have like 8 UN-LE'd capped chars, the only LE'd people I have are tradeskillers. I do go to MC5 in a team, my clanmates and I do it frequently with tanks and PPU. Occasionally we will run into a LE'd guy trying to drone it solo, but it's rarely been a problem at all for us. We outdamage his drone easily.

    I don't get your rhetoric Juppe, I give you a real solution to the problem that won't piss off 75% of the community that is LE'd and you dismiss it because you just dont like LE'd people. You don't want LE'd people to play the game. This is the part that annoys me, you are actively trying to drive people away from the game when we desperately need people to stay. Trying to force people into a playstyle that they don't like will do exactly that. People will eventually shed their LE's in their own time, forcing the issue isn't the way to go.

    As I said before the old game system doesn't work any longer. You cant just scream on alliance that you got PK'd and have an army of defenders show up to avenge you. Do you even play this game now? Who are your ingame chars, maybe then I can get a better understanding of why you come off as so un-informed.

  3. #63
    God of the Crahnsect LeoPump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strife View Post
    Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?
    "Stay at home" - No one can access your Appartment, so u can idle there with red SL and everything will be okay.
    And with Support you can manage Missions, not a big deal..
    "Ich bin für klare Hierarchien. Gott hat ja auch nicht zu Moses gesagt: "Hier Moses, ich hab' da mal was aufgeschrieben, was mir nicht so gefällt. Falls du Lust hast schau' doch da mal drüber." Nein, da hieß es: Zack, 10 Gebote! Und wer nicht pariert kommt in die Hölle. Bums, aus, Nikolaus." (Stromberg)

  4. #64
    Member of Phoenix, Ltd Jest's Avatar
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    It's been said before but what we really need is a comprehensive list from the developers of things the LE is intended to accomplish in game. If the LE is intended only as a low level aid then I'd say it might be possible. But if the developers intend for capped characters to be able to use the LE to play the game without risk of getting attacked then I'd put removing LE from warzones at the top of my list of things that are never going to happen.

  5. #65

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    As far player interractions goes, the LE widespread use most definitly made faction relation irrelevant to their "playstyle". Not green on green killing and clan wars, as clan waging wars for faction supremacy plays within the intended rules.


    Standing hand in hand with enemy factions in say P2 or Regeant was probably not the intended gameplay.


    .

  6. #66
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faid View Post
    ...... But the people back then didn't kill anyone and everyone simply because they were bored. Faction relations were respected, alliances were respected, Clan relations were respected and low level characters trying to level were respected. There is litterally none of this respect in the current game today.

    This directly contributes to the current situation we now have with the LE'd people today. The game wasn't designed as a shoot everyone free for all style sandbox. Your actions were supposed to have consequences. Those consequences are laughable now, and no one cares about them. It's nothing to go RED SL now, faction sympathy doesn't mean anything and relations with other players are the last thing on peoples minds. Try leveling in Regants without an LE, people who are in your own faction will try to kill you. I dont think this is what they had in mind when they designed the game.............
    And this is a very brilliant analysis what Neocron is today, and was it since i started playing end of 2005 !
    But who wonders ? Most of the ant-LE-driven posts here are originated exactly from this described player type - the pvp-only player, see below. And this is a reason for stating that an overhauling of a LE mechanic without renewing the "consequences systems" like criminal watch / soul light etc. must fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by [F6]Knight View Post
    ......
    The OP's idea is to disable the LE in some zones, balanced in such a way that non capped people still have safe places to level where their LE will work, but capped people will have more zones where they can fight anyone they find, which will be mainly warzones and zones where endgame PvP gear is farmed (MC5, DOY tunnels, Ceres labs, ...)
    Look for this playstyle. player type as described above : kill-on-sight everyone which is found on the map without LE. This should be the intention of the game ? Really ?

    Quote Originally Posted by [F6]Knight View Post
    ........The only way this really hurts PvE players is that they can now be ganked when afk macro'ing research cubes at ops and when they try to farm endgame PvP gear. But the almight droner aside, people usually take teams to farm endgame PvP gear and should be able to defend themselves from gankers or at least die trying. That's the spirit of NC.......
    PVE-Players = griefers, PVE-players = exploiters, PVE-players = macro-user.

    Simple mathematics, no ?

    In all the years of playing Neocron (oh, sorry with 7 of 8 non-LE'd characters xD), most of cheating/ exploiting i had to witness was done by pvp-players/ clans only.

    This then should be solved before changing complex LE game mechanics.

    Reed

  7. #67

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    The priorities here arn't right, Reed.

    Focus of the dev team is put on fixing game exploits. A LOT of players knowingly use the LE to exploit and stretch game mechanics to their advantages.
    I wont list them, but there is 5 common LE exploits I can name off the top of my head, and the community demands for them to be addressed.

    Fixing SL/FS rules should come far below in the priority list, as it doesnt currently hinder people's gaming experience in an easily exploitable way. Very few people use FS/SL exploits, as very few exists.


    Please realise that the LE is a common source of exploits for PVP and even PVE gaming aspects, and needs to be addresed ASAP whereas FS/SL rules are rather non-urgent and uncommon.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by [F6]Knight View Post
    There will still be people driving an LE'd quad on top of corpses to block rezzing or scouting with an LE'd char without the risk of being detected and killed.
    I'm confused by this, your saying that someone kills you on a non-LE'd char and then logs off and back on as a LE'd char to block you being rezzed? Since surely that's self defeating as the person that killed you has now taken themselves out of the fight for the sole purpose of keeping one other person out of the fight.

    Or

    Are you saying that someone kills you and then uses a dual logged LE'd char (somehow not getting killed while not paying attention to there unLE'd char) to drive on your corpse and block the rezz?

    Since the first option makes no tactical sense unless you are known to be a godlike fighter and in which case how did you die in the first place for them to prevent your return to the fight?

    The second option is only doable by people with dual accounts (so people that had 2+ accounts at the time the game was subscription) as we are not allowed to make a second account anymore so only real veterans of NC could do this.

    Lastly is not this already covered under

    You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other NEOCRON users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of maintaining the NEOCRON Service for the enjoyment of all its users.
    as the admin's have said they will enforce the rules now that KK never did.
    Last edited by Eternal Pink; 09-04-13 at 19:37.

  9. #69
    Roger Ramjet Fanboy Number 1 RogerRamjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strife View Post
    Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?
    OK, the consequences are avoidable, and easily counter-acted.

    But like the weapons and PA aren't easily replaceable to most people, especially those to wilfully PK regardless of faction. This isn't a deterrent.

    Ultimately I'd like to see a move towards a state where the LE doesn't exist or is disabled at a certain level, but the faction and SL system actually works. Make runners interact with one another again. From experience being in FETISH, ganking everyone (and boy, did we gank), is easy as hell and it's pretty easy to replace any items lost and to regain SL to an acceptable level. It's been a busted system for a long time.

    Dealing with people who still go that far... I don't know. Make apartment doors hackable, dependent on SL like belts? It's easy enoigh on the citycom to see the majority of people on bad SL idling in their apartments.

  10. #70

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    @Pink


    Runner ffrom clan dies, then instead of waiting for rez or login another fighter, he logs onto and LEd char, drives to OP and then proceeds to exploit. No one logs off an alive char to do it.

    @Roger

    I see were you come from but its a priority issue again for the Dev team.

    Its either fix exploits ASAP, or wait for a long and complex fix to be developped, tested, and implemented.

  11. #71
    Roger Ramjet Fanboy Number 1 RogerRamjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    @Roger

    I see were you come from but its a priority issue again for the Dev team.

    Its either fix exploits ASAP, or wait for a long and complex fix to be developped, tested, and implemented.
    Definitely. Weapon balance is priority for now.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    @Pink

    Runner ffrom clan dies, then instead of waiting for rez or login another fighter, he logs onto and LEd char, drives to OP and then proceeds to exploit. No one logs off an alive char to do it.
    Okay so its peeps that have already died doing it which makes sense but this does not sound like an LE issue to me it sounds like an exploit issue as it would be covered by either the rule I posted or the "you won't use any game bugs" rule since i'd be willing to wager that was never the intention of the LE so getting the peoples that do it banned would fix it.

    Which would be better since other LE'd peeps aren't getting punished for someone elses actions and the people that are doing it do get punished.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juppe View Post
    People not respecting faction relations etc..? I levelled alot in reagants without LE.. Wasnt killed even by reds or neutrals. Well some reds were acting hostile so i had to make a run for it but that is just great and what makes neocron, neocron. Stop scaring people with your own fears.. There is not that ganking you speak of..even if were it would bring back some good old open world pvp because you should alert someone there if you cant defend yourself and being ganked.
    So there is no ganking, eh?
    Thats funny because when I started about a week ago, the first thing I did (like I did in the "good old days") was taking out the LE.
    All was fine until I was waiting in Moxxi's appa for her to finish my TL20 gun, when suddenly a Hostile Fac Dissy Spy came in, instakilled me - then went out again.
    Same day about a few hours later i dare zoning into P2, not knowing that this seems to be the current spot for lame ass zoning BS (back in the day I remember people doing that in PP2 with the subway) and someone hacks my belt to get a TL20 armor as phat lewt (congrats on whoever bolstered his epeen with that).
    A day later at the Launcher Bunker near MB my brother got pestered by a capped dude with a STORM laser or something like that, who was actually trying to bully him into saying nice things about said guy (which really weirded me out..mental problems or low self-esteem probably), when I told him to stop (still on my lowbie tank) he asked me what my problem was and to get lost, like right now, when i did not, he shot me, then graciously told my brother that he "may live".
    Same day few hours later I get insta-killed by the next guy with TL80+ weaponry while in the MB at the dataterm.
    About half an hour later I get killed inside the launcher bunker by a 2 or 3 man team with rare gear, because " i could have looted a PPU's belt they just killed around there" of course I haad no idea what PPU they were talking about.
    About ten minutes later another dude with rare guns tries to kill me at the gogu in MB again..luckily he was the worst shot I have ever met in NC, so I got away, but when I come to the launcher bunker, he is driving around it in circles and starts shooting at everyone without an LE, which unfortunately is only me, still being the worst shot ever, I manage to run away, only to get a direct in which he tells me that he could have killed me if he wanted to..but he likes it more when i run for my life and that he will kill me on sight, so his "mates have more to level".

    I did not include 6 "accidental" deaths by capped players for being somewhere they didnt want/expect me to be and of course the 2 or three times i got instakilled at point red while trying to get the tier 2 brain imps.
    All that of course before even hitting */30.

    What I'm trying to say is, if you really believe that there is no ganking/accidental killing or whatever of low rank players..you need to wake up.

    And yes, there is not a lot of respect for factions/low ranks from what I have experienced in the last week, that dude with the STORM laser was one of ours (TT) he just didnt give a shit. When I started NC1 back in the day, I got killed by capped players as well..but they rezzed me ASAP, apologized and most of the time even gave me a tip for my trouble, no matter what faction they belonged to.

    The LE is important to enable people to avoid all that, because YES, people got softer and nowadays if a game is not fun, they stop playing it pretty fast.
    Having said that, I still am in favor of restricting the LE to sectors where "endgame" loot is not uncontestedly available.
    There need to be proper leveling zones though, otherwise this won't work.

    But rest assured, that crying for the LE to get removed entirely will result in the same sad empty servers that almost killed this great game before, because most people dont like to get fucked over until they can at least defend themselves.
    MMO's are like sex. Depending on your "skill" and "equipment" you can be a pornstar, average contestant or bukakke victim.

  14. #74

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    [EDITED]


    @Topic: Thats exactly why this thread is about LE being related to zones. I hate P2 sync laming more than anybody, but the lack of low-lvl vs high-lvl balance or lack of proper safezones/zone regulations in Neocron City doesn't mean, that in an ideal patch level where this would be fixed, the LE would still be needed to protect noobs from douchebags.
    Last edited by Alduin; 15-04-13 at 15:19. Reason: Be nice and friendly!

  15. #75
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    i said it before and i say it again: implement proper punishment mechanisms that can't be abused (just saying, this doesn't always apply) and change it so that le'd players get no rare drops. this doesn't affect traders unless they want to cap their skills too.

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