1. #16
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    this.

    LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.
    This is right!

    Fortunately the dev team has no intention to take the LE out of the game. The problem is the same as many others in "real life" - simple soluitions mostly fail because life and society aren't simple as all.

    If one would change LE settings one has to care about the complete surrounding of the social ineractions ingame and the criminal watch, e.g. the soul light system for example.

    Whatever you have experienced (something here sounds very naive), be sure that there are a lot of antisocial players hidden in anonymity which give a shit on RP, game rules or "normal" behaviour as intended. Therefore all these game mechanics hav to be reworked carefully to ensure that Neocron will not be a gankers paradise for antisocial gamers. There is only a very small minority of gamers which prefer such a "rough world" as a game for freetime and entertainment. The other players will leave a game like this (as they did in masses in the last years of cheating and abusing), that's for sure.

    I still have some problems to understand why we have to eliminate a PVE-LE-Playstyle from the game, because if player numbers are big enough there should be no probllem to have a complete coexistence between the playstyles and the player can choose. Eliminate the exploiting options for abusing a LE and that's it.

    Making such massive restrictions for LE'd players is as making the LE complete worthless. If it is only working in Plaza 1 for what a LE is good anymore ?

    Reed

  2. #17
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Here's a philosophical LE question.

    If a GM spawned a badass mob in a place you didn't expect it, but was totally acceptable in rules of the game (i.e. not in a "safe, can't draw weapons" area) and you died, is that acceptable? Why or why not? If this is acceptable, why do the same rules not apply to a player (bored or otherwise?) - In short, if you are OK with an accidental PVE kill, what makes an accidental PVP kill any different?
    Or, for further simplification, what makes a player any different than an unexpected high level mob?

    I realize maybe this should be a thread by itself. If so, please calve it off, devs. It is a serious philosophical exploration that I'm endeavoring to foster here.

  3. #18

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    I know this has gone off topic because of the post before mine, but still. My views are on the first page of this one.

    IF a GM / Dev spawns up a "badass mob" in a place you didn't expect, they normally give warning of such events like when the warbots, elves, santa or kamikaze guys spawned outside MB or Neocron. OR when they did it over xmas / new year they said it was gunna happen in P2 so you could avoid the limited part of that area it effected.

    More recently they made a mass overspawn in Regants Legacy where you had 200 or so mobs but no boss endlessly respawning in the high security room. You could only see about 100 at any one time what made life difficult, and they changed it back after a day. This as far as I could tell was a stress test experiment. But some people used it to WoC characters. One of which was a tank who went from normal 100str cap to WoC 5 in about 8 hours of playing. Others got from normal cap to WoC 1 on multiple characters on APUs or Droners.
    As per normal some people loved this and worked out ways to gain the huge xp available to them there, others who wanted to level as normal or were to weak to survive in the area found that they had a long run down to lv2 only to end up dead in a couple of minutes and have to run back again and complained.
    In my opinion, the people who complained had a fair case to complain that they could not level there, though other places were still open for them to level in so could have just gone somewhere else. However a lot of people enjoyed this event that only lasted 1 day and found that this gave them something fun to do in a game that at times just becomes a grind going from levelling a char, farming rareparts / mc5 / WoC disks / Ultimas and slot enhancers.
    Personally I would like to see more events like this, maybe the juggernaut facility doors open up and juggernauts spawn in I-09, then a few hours later I-10 then -> H-10 then -> G-10 then -> G-09 then finally -> F-09 Blackmist Garbage Dump. This avoids all Op zones and story wise it might be that they are requiring salvage to gather more parts to make more juggernauts or who ever is running the place finds out a power source or experimental processor or something has been accidently dumped there and wants it.

    Again if this happens people might complain they cant level / hunt in the zones they want. But if its limited time only its fine so long as warning is given in some form that these zones are going to be more dangerous for a while.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    [...]Therefore all these game mechanics hav to be reworked carefully to ensure that Neocron will not be a gankers paradise for antisocial gamers.[...]
    The main question is: Do these rules really need to be implemented in game mechanics or is it possible to enforce them by player interaction and socialization?

    For example, let's think about the other way around: If we would make high-level caves battle zones without belt drop and soul light loss, and deactivating the LE, would it regulate itself by the players or not ?

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by demonssword View Post

    More recently they made a mass overspawn in Regants Legacy where you had 200 or so mobs but no boss endlessly respawning in the high security room. You could only see about 100 at any one time what made life difficult, and they changed it back after a day. This as far as I could tell was a stress test experiment. But some people used it to WoC characters. One of which was a tank who went from normal 100str cap to WoC 5 in about 8 hours of playing. Others got from normal cap to WoC 1 on multiple characters on APUs or Droners.
    You mean this particular occurrence?
    Regants Boss room bug

  6. #21
    Custom User Title braydagner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.
    this.
    now enough with these these fucking anti-LE threads already. it's been a part of the game since it was a game. don't like it? tough. i would bet money that this game would get almost no new people if /2's were getting killed while they tried to level. and i think we all know that most of the LE whiners are the people that love to kill /2's.

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    You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
    Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
    The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..

  8. #23
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juppe View Post
    You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
    Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
    The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..
    ok #1 to call someone completely wrong because their point of view is diffrent from yours is ignorant.
    #2 whats fun for you is not exactly fun for everyone else. hell, its fun for ALOT of people, but its NOT fun for ALOT of other people
    for example im in ceres lab and one of my clan mates gets ganked at regants. now im dual logged on ppu and tank trying to farm for woc and disk. ive got to run 2 chars out safely and log them off then run ALLL the way to regants to find out that its all over. i just did all that for nothing.....for NOTHING(this is neither fun or exciting for me at all). if im le'd, i dont have those distractions so i can get to my goal which is level my guys to cap and op fight. i could care less about ganking and p2, fun for me are op fights. and im not alone here, there are alot of people who feel the same, and thats the side that gankers know and whine on the forums to change. dont screw one set of player to appease the other type of player. keep it fair all around, and let pvp happen for those that want it not those that dont.
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  9. #24
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    No, i said he is wrong. He is. I meant the part where he said all who complain about LE and wants it removed are players who want to gank lvl 2s. So please, drop it.. You are the ignorant one.

  10. #25

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    lol at this thread close already

  11. #26

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    This thread got so derailed that some of you can't see the forest through the trees anymore.
    It's not about removing the LE.
    It's about brainstorming to find some acceptable solutions to solve the current abuse that comes with the LE but at the same time not screwing over the leveling people because there are too many bored gankers out there that don't care if they kill a 75/65 or a 1/2.

    Hence the OP's idea to disable the LE in some zones.
    It was also pretty clear that he wanted to start a brainstorm about which zones should and should not disable the LE, instead a few people start attacking and insulting each other.
    It baffles me that after all these years, the NC forum community is still mostly a bunch of squabbling little kids.
    It seems that while the game got 10 years older, some of you have been stuck in a bubble where time stood still.
    I'm sure that my previous 3 sentences have hurt some major e-peen out there but someone had to say it.
    I'll now try to add something useful to this thread again and hopefully the people who got butthurt will take a deep breath and count to 10 before replying.
    Let's try to continue this discussion in a useful matter so the devs can get a half decent idea of our concerns and possible solutions.

    I still largely stand by my previous statement from the first page regarding which zones should and shouldn't disable the LE.
    I only wish to slightly change my opinion about the wasteland.
    Previously I suggested to make the entire wasteland unLE'd, but that might be a bit harsh after all.
    After some consideration I now suggest the following wasteland zones and dungeons to be unLE'd:
    - Warzones: It avoids abuse during OP fights and you don't drop a belt there anyway. It can screw over people who try to do TL150 res mission since they can be ganked, but unfortunately most of them use scripts / macro's to automate it all for them so I don't really give a damn that they get ganked and wake up in the morning with only 10 TL150 cubes instead of 4 stacks. Serves them right.
    - Any high level zone / dungeon where it's pretty clear that it's being used to farm mostly for PvP items. MC5, DOY tunnels, Juggernaut facility, the areas for the DOY quest, ... you get the idea.
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  12. #27
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Frankly, it has been said before (and I agreed then, heck I've started this same thread!)

    And until we are told what the LE is meant to enable, we will just say the same things, and attack each other, which is why I just stay out. My opinion is articulated in the LE thread *I* started, and I wasn't the first by far. The flame wars are out of line for sure, but we've all stated our positions a hundred times, and until someone in development says "LE's are for high level farming!" or "LE's are for newbs!" or "LEs are intended to allow ________!" Then we will all just be blabbing our loudmouth opinions with no guidance.

    "What is the goal of the LE?" is the necessary answer before we continue.

  13. #28
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juppe View Post
    You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
    Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
    The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..
    Sinple: He is not whining, thats more the proposals to remove the LE. And its you who is talking nonsense. NC1 is gone forever, take it. The player base has changed. You were lucky if you weren't kill only once, then you didn't met the right people. I remember some guys and whole clans for which ganking was the only game goal. And most of the actual (for years now) player base IS levelling with LE. So this is a normal majority. The people who level with LE are much more than the few which starts one anti-LE-thread after another.

    What is your guys problem if you state that player with LE play a single player game and do not interact with the rest ???

    What is your problem to miss the game atmosphere if there are LE players ? Nothing enough to gank ?

    Let the player choose their playstyle and the point of time to remove it. Most of all players remove the LE if they are capped/ wocced.

    All this anti-LE threads are only good for ruining the game and make the player base smaller.

    Reed

  14. #29
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Thread destroyed

    Try and stick to the original idea guys!

  15. #30

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    This thread is obviously about LE players and their unrestricted access to end-game content, not about protecting the oh-so important 0/2 noobs.

    Reed replying the same rethoric in every thread concerning LE is rather off-topic, since nothing here is about playstyle; it's about access to content and competing for it, which is usually part of an online game and forced onto all players.

    A lot of people feel we should be forced to compete for end-game loot and that LE should NOT be an exemption to that.

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