1. #1
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Default Law Enforcer should only work in designated areas

    I know there are many threads on this already. In an attempt to help the developers keep sight on all the different ideas I'm throwing mine out there in a separate thread.

    There have been many people shouting to remove the LE. I don't think this should or will happen because there are simply too many people against it.

    Wouldn't it work for everyone if the LE only worked in certain designated areas?

    Law Enforced areas:

    • Neocron City
    • Neocron Subway
    • Military Base and it's surrounding zone
    • Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone

    Non Law Enforced areas:

    • All wasteland zones
    • MC5
    • All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)

    Up for discussion:

    • Neocron OZ
    • el Farid
    • Regent's

    Appreciate if we can stick to only this suggestion, post your thoughts, criticism on the idea or what ever but if you have a different idea, create your own brainport topic to keep the discussions clear!

    Technical bit:

    Judging by the description of the implant "LAW ENFORCED +1" this is a simple 0 or 1 thing. That would mean that zones could have a permanent buff in them to force LAW ENFORCED to 0.

    I don't think the coding would be too extreme.

  2. #2

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    I already supported this idea in the other topic and will do so here again but with my own view on where the LE should and shouldn't work.

    Based on your original list I have the following remarks / suggestions:

    - Don't enforce the LE on the entire city. (OZ not included obviously)
    I wouldn't mind removing the P2 zonewhoring PvP and make entire Plaza LE'd again, as well as VR. But leave at least PP unLE'd.

    - I don't see much point in TH being LE'd in it's current state.
    TH is abandoned 99.9% of the time and for now is only seen as "another GR". Not much point in making it LE'd unless the devs do something to make TH more attractive again for runners.

    - MB is a tricky one. On one hand it's a military base and PvP fits that picture very well, but it's also THE prime leveling spot for low level runners. I wouldn't mind MB becoming unLE'd if the devs provide some new prime leveling spots in the city where the LE doesn't get disabled.

    - Making all wasteland zones unLE'd could solve a lot of abuse problems as it covers every OP as well as MC5 and the warbot / firemob hunting zones where the LE is sometimes abused to ninjahack warbots or park rhino's over firemob corpses.
    It also solves LE'd vehicle and runner abuse during OP fights.
    It does create one possibly major issue though. It makes vehicles attackable / destroyable pretty much everywhere where they can be spawned. This takes away LE'd vehicle farming.
    I personally don't have a problem with this but I think some people might.

    - As for El Farid and Regants, I spend a lot of time in the past at both as an LE'd runner and often saw unLE's PvP geared runnersheading into Regants with the sole purpose of ganking PvE geared unLE'd runners who were still trying to level.
    I would only not mind these zones becoming unLE'd IF the penalties for killing someone in hunting / leveling zones is GREATLY increased. (no matter if they belong to a friendly, neutral or hostile faction). Major SL loss from each kill and maybe even a moderate faction sympathy loss for your own or even all factions. Ganking in leveling areas should make you an outlaw pretty quickly. But that is an entirely different discussion and has already been covered in other brainport topics in the past.
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  3. #3

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    Another problem comes from people doing things like their epic faction quests. What in a lot of cases takes you to places like industrial A / Outzone / Crest Village / Point Red with a stat rank of 10-20 in some cases. Others have to make their way to TH or MB or even El-Farid by the same types of levels, and if you have your LE disabled when outside you could easily be griefed. Also with losing your belt as well at that low level then you likely will not have good enough soul light to stop people hacking it, even though what they get will be something like a TL 20-30 weapon or piece of armour for doing so.

    I'm still more of a fan of the idea of only a few zones being changed. MC5 / DOY Tunnels / DOY Quest zones (SWAT / IAR quest) / Juggernaut Facility / Ceres Labs. Otherwise there is to much of a lack of "safe" levelling zones.
    Things like El-Farid, Regants, J-01 (I think that is MB Bunker), Aggy Sewer in P1... are needed to get people up to a good enough level to go out and PVP. But with such high scaling between a common going up to a rare weapon, I don't see without sponsorship from someone that a new player would be able to get up to the point where they can pvp successfully.
    This paired with current supposed problems like PEs only being viable if WoC and the XP being so slow for them to grind it out would mean that outside of the current batch of PEs who are WoC you probably wouldn't get any more unless they are being dragged around with a PPU and a few combat chars and going to high XP areas to leech a lot of it.

  4. #4

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    OK this is how I see things with the LE. The vast majority of people who use the LE use it correctly, they are the ones leveling who don't want to be bothered by bored UN-LE'd gankers. There are times where the LE is used for purposes that it was not intended for also, but in my experience these times are few and far between, certainly not enough for there to be a huge sweeping change.

    Proper Dungeon and vehicle mechanics would solve 90% of the problems.

    I do agree however, that the LE may need some tweaking and a good, fair system should be worked out without alienating the people who use it properly.

  5. #5
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    Don't Agree some levelling zones contain ops and don't agree with the rest because your making it more difficult for and LE'd players to farm areas QQ to those who will cry because they cant kill an LE player just because they decided to do something at the same time as others, tough luck do something else besides it will lead to more whines and over complicating things

  6. #6
    Hand me a gun and ask me again zii's Avatar
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    IMO:

    Law Enforced areas:

    Neocron City
    Neocron Subway
    Military Base [and its surrounding zone - Military should protect the area like the NPCD]
    Tech Haven and its surrounding zone
    Regent's in the Canyons
    el Farid (Let them level)

    Non Law Enforced areas:

    All wasteland zones
    MC5
    All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)
    Neocron OZ/IND
    Regent's Legacy - It is a very high level levelling zone

  7. #7
    Member of Phoenix, Ltd Jest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentEye View Post
    Law Enforced areas:
    • Neocron City
    • Neocron Subway
    • Military Base and it's surrounding zone
    • Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone

    Non Law Enforced areas:
    • All wasteland zones
    • MC5
    • All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)

    Up for discussion:
    • Neocron OZ
    • el Farid
    • Regent's
    I could see a limit on the zones which are law enforced but the problem with this proposed list is that it makes the LE chip essentially useless after the Bunker. That might be supported by a good amount of players but nothing I've heard from the developers has led me to believe they will make a change this extreme.

    If we were to limit the LE by zone then I'd suggest a smaller change. Remove the LE protection from the "Dungeons". El Farid, Regent's, Mc5, Ceres Labs, CRP, Chaos Caves, Point Red Underground, Gaia Mine, etc...

    This solves the primary objection of the LE. Players who are farming valuable and limited resources and are untouchable. This now puts them at the same risk as any of us if they want to have access to WoC discs, Mc5 implants, or access to the valuable leveling spots. LE players still have protection outside of those zones and they can still choose to put themselves at risk if they want to have access to these places, but it doesn't give them immunity.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentEye View Post
    I know there are many threads on this already. In an attempt to help the developers keep sight on all the different ideas I'm throwing mine out there in a separate thread.

    There have been many people shouting to remove the LE. I don't think this should or will happen because there are simply too many people against it.

    Wouldn't it work for everyone if the LE only worked in certain designated areas?

    Law Enforced areas:

    • Neocron City
    • Neocron Subway
    • Military Base and it's surrounding zone
    • Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone

    Non Law Enforced areas:

    • All wasteland zones
    • MC5
    • All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)

    Up for discussion:

    • Neocron OZ
    • el Farid
    • Regent's

    Appreciate if we can stick to only this suggestion, post your thoughts, criticism on the idea or what ever but if you have a different idea, create your own brainport topic to keep the discussions clear!

    Technical bit:

    Judging by the description of the implant "LAW ENFORCED +1" this is a simple 0 or 1 thing. That would mean that zones could have a permanent buff in them to force LAW ENFORCED to 0.

    I don't think the coding would be too extreme.
    MC5 and OP's I can agree with (although if you include OP's the tl 150 res mission cash cow everybody appears to be using will go), the rest all your doing is making it harder for people to level and thus increasing the LE'd people.

    How many people here *HONESTLY* levelled without the LE? Since from my time in regants/CRP that number is very very very small.

    So other than create lots of easy kills for existing players and slow down levelling chars getting to cap and popping I don't see any advantage to making so much of the map LE-unfriendly

    As an example, the very first week I came back I saw one person complain on help about the number of LE's the reply they got was "stfu you popped yours what a week ago?" from another unLE'd player

  9. #9
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Pink View Post
    MC5 and OP's I can agree with, the rest all your doing is making it harder for people to level and thus increasing the LE'd people.

    How many people here *HONESTLY* levelled without the LE? Since from my time in regants/CRP that number is very very very small.

    So other than create lots of easy kills for existing players and slow down levelling chars getting to cap and popping I don't see any advantage to making so much of the map LE-unfriendly
    I agree 100% with this.
    Let people level in Peace = more capped players that can give a challenge.
    OP zones, MC5 and maybe a couple of other zones would be nice to have as LE-free zones.
    But the major leveling zones, should be safe, so they wont be infested with griefers ganking everyone who is trying to level up..
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  10. #10

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    Something I thought of, perhaps make it that you unable to get to woc xp (XP gain turns off once you cap until LE removal) or use woc items while LE'd since even though I have my LE in all my chars as none are capped even i'm a bit wtf when I see a LE'd dude in woc PA

  11. #11
    Veteran Mortis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    I agree 100% with this.
    Let people level in Peace = more capped players that can give a challenge.
    OP zones, MC5 and maybe a couple of other zones would be nice to have as LE-free zones.
    But the major leveling zones, should be safe, so they wont be infested with griefers ganking everyone who is trying to level up..
    its not about more people, you have think objectiv about that. you have to design the le for the future game play.
    the idea that the le is only working in specific areas is very good solution.
    the core of the game is the rough world.
    maybe you could even project it with roleplay...
    who uses the law enforcement system and who not?
    of course neocron uses it, but the canyon? definitely not.
    who invented it? i guess fallen angels, so th could be a law enforced zone?
    this way we dont need safe zones, just law enforced zones.
    maybe further content could be, that the law enforcement system that sends you the signal into your brainchip is hackable on specific areas so that city raids are still an option. full hacker bring those systems down.
    the le chip could be taken out of the game, because it had to be so deep implemented in the brain, that any try of taking it out would do too much harm.
    so the law enforcement is much easier to be changed by the devs in the future

    just some thoughts

  12. #12
    I am BlackMaze SilentEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
    its not about more people, you have think objectiv about that. you have to design the le for the future game play.
    the idea that the le is only working in specific areas is very good solution.
    the core of the game is the rough world.
    maybe you could even project it with roleplay...
    who uses the law enforcement system and who not?
    of course neocron uses it, but the canyon? definitely not.
    who invented it? i guess fallen angels, so th could be a law enforced zone?
    this way we dont need safe zones, just law enforced zones.
    maybe further content could be, that the law enforcement system that sends you the signal into your brainchip is hackable on specific areas so that city raids are still an option. full hacker bring those systems down.
    the le chip could be taken out of the game, because it had to be so deep implemented in the brain, that any try of taking it out would do too much harm.
    so the law enforcement is much easier to be changed by the devs in the future

    just some thoughts
    Me likes

  13. #13
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    I played nc1 and i have nice memories about that time.. I remember nobody had le back then.. Returned to the game few months ago and yes i levelled without le now also. I was brutally ganked only once!
    Id like to think neocron is more hardcore game than many others..but the le trend which is going on makes it more of a carebear game..bleh.
    I like the idea on this thread and support it.
    Atleast zones where you can farm rares,mc5 etc should be non le. All who farm those are farming them for pvp use anyway..

  14. #14
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    Used to be this way, I will always support it going back to a similar model.

    Also, in response to the guy that said "who levels with no LE anyway?" Me, always have, since launch.

    However, as usual, I'll point out that this discussion is academic (and well trodden, at that) until we hear what the DEV intent for the LE is.

  15. #15
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faid View Post
    Proper Dungeon and vehicle mechanics would solve 90% of the problems.
    LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.

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