LE & Vehicle Protection

[Dope]

Actually this effectively solves the "parked on mobs" issue. Either side can now shoot your vehicle if you use the vehicle in a non-intended way to cause others trouble (by parking on a mob so they cannot loot it.) Seems to me that "all vehicles are subject to damage by other players." solves that neatly.

The only argument I could see for this being a "bad change" comes from a position where the player believes that they are intended to be able to play the game completely PvE without ever interacting with other players in a PvP mode. I believe a core design premise of this game is a lack of safety and an air of tension in the wild places, and as such, this change seems to support that intent.

As an aside, without a Dev's call on whether or not Neocron is intended to be played "alone/together" (like WoW/CoH/EQ etc.) or whether Neocron is intended to be a community game that cannot be soloed safely in it's entirety, it's hard to know where the focus should be with regard to changes.

[DR REED]

Actually this effectively solves the "parked on mobs" issue. Either side can now shoot your vehicle if you use the vehicle in a non-intended way to cause others trouble (by parking on a mob so they cannot loot it.) Seems to me that "all vehicles are subject to damage by other players." solves that neatly.

The only argument I could see for this being a "bad change" comes from a position where the player believes that they are intended to be able to play the game completely PvE without ever interacting with other players in a PvP mode. I believe a core design premise of this game is a lack of safety and an air of tension in the wild places, and as such, this change seems to support that intent.

As an aside, without a Dev's call on whether or not Neocron is intended to be played "alone/together" (like WoW/CoH/EQ etc.) or whether Neocron is intended to be a community game that cannot be soloed safely in it's entirety, it's hard to know where the focus should be with regard to changes.

I don't know hwo told you that players which play a while (!!) / or for long time their chars do play the game solo/ alone or without interacting with other players? This is an error. NC is intended to have a LE-option, this is part of the game, too.

The only difference is that they take the option to avoid beeing ganked by other players, especially by those "experts" which are going WOCed with all-mc5 to kill everything which is not on the tree count to 3

Reed

[Faid]

Actually this effectively solves the "parked on mobs" issue. Either side can now shoot your vehicle if you use the vehicle in a non-intended way to cause others trouble (by parking on a mob so they cannot loot it.) Seems to me that "all vehicles are subject to damage by other players." solves that neatly.

Either side cannot shoot your vehicle, only the UN-LE'd side can shoot your vehicle. This is what makes the change unfair. I'd agree that if both sides could shoot any vehicle regardless of LE staus it would at least be fair. But only the one side gets to shoot vehicles in this patch, LE'd people get screwed hard.

[Dope]

Wait, really?

I misunderstood. I thought that *right now* on live, vehicles with LE'd owners could not be destroyed, but those with Non-LE'd owners could, and that this would change that so that all vehicles were fair game regardless.

If that's not how it is being implemented then I'm clearly confused. I'm not on Vedeena though, I just read the forums.

[Dropout]

Either side cannot shoot your vehicle, only the UN-LE'd side can shoot your vehicle. This is what makes the change unfair. I'd agree that if both sides could shoot any vehicle regardless of LE staus it would at least be fair. But only the one side gets to shoot vehicles in this patch, LE'd people get screwed hard.

Sorry Faid, but that would just be silly..
If LE's could shoot unLE'd vehicles, we would end up with unLE'd people being defenceless (I am here speaking of a LE'd who is not in a vechicle btw)..

[Assimilator]

Doesnt solve LEd parking on dead mobs.

So does this mean we should be exploring a loots rights problem instead of a LE/unLE VHC problem? Root cause analysis!

[Faid]

OK this is why we need an official explanation of what is happening with vehicles in this patch. People are very confused as to what is actually happening to LE'd vehicles. They don't realise that UN-LE'd people will be able to destroy any LE'd vehicle whithout any way for the LE'd vehicle to defend itself. Almost everyone I tell about this can't believe that the devs would actually do it and they think there must be some mistake. And this is just for the few dozen people on these forums, the majority of the actual in game players have no idea what-so-ever. Anyway still waiting on the explanation of why the devs think this is a good idea, it's only been a few weeks since they said they would try to explain their decision...

[gstyle40]

And to clear things up a little more for those that dont/haven't played for years, right now any combat vehicle regardless of le can blow up a vehicle. The change will make this so ONLY UN-LE'D can damage ANY VEHICLE. As it is on retail right now is a bug that was never intended. Patch 181/182 is the bandaid.

[RogerRamjet]

Almost everyone I tell about this can't believe that the devs would actually do it and they think there must be some mistake. And this is just for the few dozen people on these forums, the majority of the actual in game players have no idea what-so-ever.

As far as I'm concerned I'm playing a game I love for free, and as it stands all the devs are currently asking for is feedback and input to make this game better.

Regardless of who you tell or their feelings on it, it's irrelevant because they're not here expressing their opinion. So instead of whinging to your mates or demanding answers from the devs why don't you ask your friends why they're not contributing to the future of this game, whether it's through laziness or ignorance.

If the game take directions they don't like and they weren't here to get their point across they have no recourse.

[Faid]

Right Roger that makes perfect sense, the devs should cater to the tiny minority that make up forum posters. Never mind the actual population, they don't matter anyway right? Neocron was so great when we had 1 - 2 % population for years. If you think that my trying to address a huge problem with this patch is just me "whinging" then there's no point to any of this. The people I've told about this patch arent my friends they are the general population of the game. And if you don't think that they are directly contributing to the future of Neocron simply by playing the game then you are mistaken.

[Kame]

Faid, I also doesn't think the new VHC rules are a problem and I think you're just whinning.

This ruleset fixes more than it breaks.

Serves you people right for using an LEd chars and VHC to grief others.

I hope this thread gets closed, we've been around the issue 2-3 times already.

[Gunshifty]

Not trying to be funny here but how does what you've said above actually relate to mokoi's point about common firearms doing too much damage to vehicles. It has nothing to do with damage against mobs.

(Refer to Page 2 in this thread)
Didn't take any offense so no problemo. I was simply stating that if
Logic A: Weapon damage against mobs in which rare weapon dmg > vehicle damage,
then it should be constant with
Logic B: Weapon damage against vehicle in which rare weapon dmg > vehicle damage;; = true.

I hopes you can follow this!

So does this mean we should be exploring a loots rights problem instead of a LE/unLE VHC problem? Root cause analysis!

I agree with you Assimilator, I think we should be exploring different ways to loot mobs since that seems to be the argument that most Un-LE'd people are taking. They can't get to their mobs which they killed because an LE'd person sits their Rhino on the mob. Maybe we should look into a way to implement a sort of "/loot" command that is common throughout MMORPGs.

EDIT:

This would be destroyed as an excellent an funny game option to avoid boring Dex/Int levelling.

Another fail patch which only prolongs the boring levelling of this char types.

Often simple changes make things more worse in a complex environment, therefore this "simple" patches should be overthought more.

Reed

I agree 110% with this.

[RogerRamjet]

Right Roger that makes perfect sense, the devs should cater to the tiny minority that make up forum posters. Never mind the actual population, they don't matter anyway right? Neocron was so great when we had 1 - 2 % population for years. If you think that my trying to address a huge problem with this patch is just me "whinging" then there's no point to any of this. The people I've told about this patch arent my friends they are the general population of the game. And if you don't think that they are directly contributing to the future of Neocron simply by playing the game then you are mistaken.

Of course they shouldn't cater to a tiny minority, but if they are the only people being vocal and expressing their opinions, which the devs have asked the community to do, then that's exactly what will happen! Forget what they do in game, they need to be on here giving their input. They have the chance to be more than numbers on a server.

[onero S]

Of course they shouldn't cater to a tiny minority, but if they are the only people being vocal and expressing their opinions, which the devs have asked the community to do, then that's exactly what will happen! Forget what they do in game, they need to be on here giving their input. They have the chance to be more than numbers on a server.

Getting a little off topic with this one... fine, regardless of the fact that it would be better if everyone who played posted, the fact of the matter is this is not the case. If devs only listen to the (minority of) players on the forums when making changes, they're going to drive off much of the population. Obviously some issues are hard to solve, in complex situations forum feedback can be invaluable. This is not one of those times, a change which obviously opens up a segment of the population to griefing (in this case the new player segment of all things!) is obviously not in the best interest of the game.

It's funny that people on here accuse Faid of whining. What does he have to lose? He already has multiple capped chars, a clan full of support behind him in the event someone tries to grief him, and huge amount of resources at his disposal should his property be destroyed. It's hard for me to think of anyone that would be directly hurt less than him by these changes.

The reason Faid (and others including myself) are so upset, is because this change will alienate new players. Those without caped chars, without the ability to call in a dozen friends ready to fight, and without access to millions of nc. Does this description ring a bell to anyone? It's exactly the demographic least likely to post in these forums.

Of all the problems neocron has, let's not have it fail to the self cannibalization of its population by the vocal, experienced, minority.

[Gunshifty]

The reason Faid (and others including myself) are so upset, is because this change will alienate new players. Those without caped chars, without the ability to call in a dozen friends ready to fight, and without access to millions of nc. Does this description ring a bell to anyone? It's exactly the demographic least likely to post in these forums.

Of all the problems neocron has, let's not have it fail to the self cannibalization of its population by the vocal, experienced, minority.

YES! I just wish people who accuse Faid of whining would get this through their thick heads.