[T#182] Testserver Patch Discussion

[Gunshifty]

Do ALL ppu spells work on LEd... As in HAB and DB as well ??

only one way to find out *points in the direction of test server* lol

[William Antrim]

No I think that DB and Antibuff count as Offensive spells so thats not gonna be the same. Just like you cant target them currently.

Faid/Gunshifty

I am not flaming you guys personally. I am playing devils advocate a little perhaps to promote some discussion. The benefits awarded to one side of the game would quite often disturb or weaken the other side.

I just want to see both get equal share.

The cash sink is also attractive. Yeah ok the noobs will not benefit from it but in the long term I do not see this as a bad thing.

[SovKhan]

Why should vehicles be protected just because someone with an LE is driving it?

LE players already have a significant advantage in the (PvE) game, I am all for there being more penalties. We should be encouraging people to play without their LE in not setting up the game to be split between LE players and the rest of the community.

If the risk is to high that you will have your vehicle blown up and you are a LE driving team than you should find other ways to level or take out your chip.

[Faid]

Why should vehicles be protected just because someone with an LE is driving it?

LE players already have a significant advantage in the (PvE) game, I am all for there being more penalties. We should be encouraging people to play without their LE in not setting up the game to be split between LE players and the rest of the community.

If the risk is to high that you will have your vehicle blown up and you are a LE driving team than you should find other ways to level or take out your chip.

This is the sentiment that seems to be driving this part of the patch. The people who just hate Le's and want to ruin the LE runners experience. This will not encourage people to take out their LE's, it will encourage them to not level with vehicles. All it does is take away another avenue for people to level. The entire reason people level with their LE's in is so the un-LE'd people can't interfere with them leveling by killing them. With this patch any UN-LE'd character can destroy any vehicle regardless of the LE status of anyone in the vehicle.

Why can't LE'd characters destroy vehicles regarless of the LE'd status of the people inside it then? This would at least make it somewhat fair, but they can't. You just told the server that it's ok to Grief LE'd people by destroying their vehicles where they have no defence or offense, it makes no sense!

[William Antrim]

Thats a pretty big jump from people who dont like the LE to people who will actively grief le'd players Faid.

[Faid]

Indeed but it certainly will happen. And it seems like this is what the devs want with this change to vehicles. I just think it's going to deter people from playing and that will hurt the population. Rhino leveling is one of the few remaining viable ways of leveling, and this change will 100% screw it up for LE'd people. Not to mention everything else people do with vehicles. LE'd quads will be blown up for fun.

I've asked before, can any Dev give me an answer to this question:

Why is it ok to damage something that can't damage you back? That is the very definition of an exploit. I thought you guys were trying to fix exploits not encourage them.

[SovKhan]

Indeed but it certainly will happen. And it seems like this is what the devs want with this change to vehicles. I just think it's going to deter people from playing and that will hurt the population. Rhino leveling is one of the few remaining viable ways of leveling, and this change will 100% screw it up for LE'd people. Not to mention everything else people do with vehicles. LE'd quads will be blown up for fun.

I've asked before, can any Dev give me an answer to this question:

Why is it ok to damage something that can't damage you back? That is the very definition of an exploit. I thought you guys were trying to fix exploits not encourage them.

Definition of an exploit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

but in all seriousness I don't see this as a huge deal. PvE balance and leveling needs to be addressed but this change has nothing to do with PvE.

[Baldur]

Please stay on topic (the patchnotes) and avoid any discussions about exploits.

Thanks

[Faid]

Baldur,
I just really want to know the reasoning behind this change, can you ask a Dev to post the reason for changing vehicles mechanics so drastically please.

@Sovkhan
This has everything to do with PVE, leveling in a rhino will made pointless now that un-LE'd people can blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. The whole point is that it is drastically unfair to the LE'd people, you may as well just remove the LE all together for all the good this change will do.

[William Antrim]

It wont be pointless and it is hardly unfair. You can make the 200k back from rhinoing in no time at all to replace the rhino with another one if you do lose it. Also you can go to the less well known places and farm there relatively undisturbed. It will teach people to explore more if anything.

[Faid]

I disagree William, you cannot make 200K from rhinoing if your rhino is being destroyed unfairly by un-LE'd people everytime you try to rhino. It's rare to find a leveling spot empty now a days and I don't think it's right to have your only recourse be to go where other people arent.

Anyway, I just wanted to know why it's now ok to shoot at something that can't shoot you back and if this line of reasoning is going to be ok for other aspects of the game. Isn't this one of the reasons turrets are banned?

[gstyle40]

It wont be pointless and it is hardly unfair. You can make the 200k back from rhinoing in no time at all to replace the rhino with another one if you do lose it. Also you can go to the less well known places and farm there relatively undisturbed. It will teach people to explore more if anything.

just to be fair, if u are trying to make money rhinoing.....STOP!!! 3 hours of rhinoing my fav spot made me 57k u get 6k for a grim percy and have to split it with the driver.....plus the cost of rep nanites......so no, u will NOT make 200k in no time leveling in a rhino. bought 100k worth of rep nans just to make 57k lol, thats called a money pit! but that was 15 levels on my spy and about 30 techs.....so in my opinion it was worth it. and with the beam weapons getting attention....yea...by buy rhino :/ ill be using my unle'd tank to level my guys now so i can protect my rhino which will be counter productive each time i have to stop my leveling to defend....i cant wait!

[hatmankh]

I'm with Faid here, just thinking about this vehicle change for a minute, I can't imagine why the dev team want to do this. I mean really the only positive is LE'd drivers can't park over corpses to stop people looting them anymore, well they can but they'll get their rhino blown up while doing it. The negatives are all vehicles except the Quad and Reveler may as well have a un LE'd requirement for what very little LE'd players will still use them after the patch, you fix part of the loot blocking problem (Un LE'd drivers can still block LE'd players from looting) and create an even bigger problem.

Sorry but just saying take your LE out or go hunt somewhere else doesn't say anything in support of this change. Really some people only want this to happen so it removes competition for hunting spots and limits it to just un LE'ds and LE'ds without vehicles, even the solo tanks and spies who use quads will be severely weakened.

Make some non LE'd players happy, piss off everyone else, some even into quitting.

[William Antrim]

Making money Rhinoing is a piece of cake. Yeah sure the actual cash you get isnt uber but then it is not meant to be. However the subsidiary economies will quite aptly support the venture and these are the reason why and how people make so much money in NC.

There is the junk which can be sold (to a barterer or just with their assistance) and the armour parts which can easily net you a good profit (7k again with a good barterer). Sell a couple of unressed as well and that will make the money if it is absolutely necessary. That is - if you are constantly getting harassed by the evils of the non-le'd people.

And yes getting out in the world and driving around looking at and shooting some of the less well travelled areas and mobs in this game was one of the things I had the most fun doing.

I realise you guys disagree and I honestly knew you would. I can accept that and I can see things from your point of view but at the end of the day it is just a game. This is not real life. We are not at war. If people lose a rhino... big deal. Its not like they got ganked. It is just a vehicle. You never know, the revenge emotion they might feel might prompt them to want to take out the le and feel even more immersed in this glorious world we call Neocron.

It might make some people quit yes but it might also bring new benefits to the game. The costs and benefits have to be weighed up and I think that both sides are making some convincing arguments for and against these changes.

I support the changes being made to NC but I also support lively and intelligent discussion. Please can we keep the sweeping generalisations and jumping to huge conclusions out of the thread because none of it has happened yet and it is just opinion.

I often rhino alone currently (dual logged) in spots that I rarely even see another soul. This is during the "Peak" time of day in Europe. I have even done it on a sunday afternoon before (the highest server pops by far) and not seen others. I do not boast about this because I like the fact that I am relatively undisturbed and at times I will drive across several zones happily taking pot shots at the landscape.

The thing is if the vehicles do get blown up a lot then it will encourage players to trade with one another and interact to replace them and even to seek retribution for their loss! This can only be a good thing for the game as FoxDF rightly said recently.

Would you guys prefer it if the cost of the Rhino was halved? What if the cost of the MNPU parts were halved for example? Or decreased by 25% even. Would that be better? It would be easier to make 100k than 200k of course. Would this go some way to softening the blow?

[Ivan Eres]

I was in a cave again today with my PPU on Titan. There was a group of maybe 7 people, and only one was un-LE'd.

I was in the team and getting XP but I could not help most players which is a very bad feeling.

I really cannot wait for this patch to hit retail so that I can support LEs too.

Another positive point about it is: The faster the LE people can level the earlier they will pull the LE out.

Regards