[T#182] Testserver Patch Discussion

[Ivan Eres]

Thank you very much for making it possible for an un-LE'd PPU to support the LE'd people. This rocks.

[William Antrim]

It will be good for getting buffs in p1 I think but in the real world I think I would be pretty pissed off if I was ppuing for a bunch of LE's and I ended up being the only one to get ganked.

However props for taking steps to get the two sides integrated. I am keen to see how the dynamic changes now for sure.

[Gunshifty]

Dont know how it occured but my creed got bugged after i shot a spy down and afterwards 2 shots on a ppu. After this ive reloaded the creed and the beam disappeard and i did no dmg in PVP. PVE damage was still possible.

edit: a full relog fixed the problem and beamweapons works fine so far.

I was the spy you shot :P

Aside from that, my pistol spy is not going to like the speed nerf.. According to my logs (which I don't have access to atm since I'm at work), my retail(~105 ATH/~150 Agility) run-speed with buffs(spy3) & drugs(redflash/paratemol x-forte) put me around 0.904. On test server, with same buffs & drugs, AND with ALL my con points put into Athletics that put me somewhere around ~144 Ath, my run-speed was something around 0.77

Basically a 23 margin decrease in my spy's run-speed. I went from feeling like nothing could possibly hit me (think melee tank speed), to feeling like carrying my pistol was the equivalent to carrying a heavy cannon.

I'm not saying I dislike the patch/run-speed nerf.. It's best for me to actually experience patch 182 on retail before I start flaming/loving the "new direction" neocron is headed in.

last of all:

The music patch works!

I almost crapped my pants when I heard the music. I was like.. "can this be real? no f**king way"! Awesome jobs fixing the music/sound/audio bug!

[ToxiN]

would be nice if the weight of speed from atl and agl get switched so we could use more points in resists atm atl counts more which is pretty sad i think

[da_fu$e]

Es ist ja wirklich toll das man als non LE'ler nun LE'ler buffen kann. Aber wo ist der Malus für den LE'ler? Das die Vehicels zerstört werden können ist da nur ein schwacher Trost!

Trade Bug scheint wirklich weg zu sein...omg!

Der Speed fühlt sich fast wie früher an. Nun muss man die Resis oder den Weapon DMG anpassen.

[Ivan Eres]

It will be good for getting buffs in p1 I think but in the real world I think I would be pretty pissed off if I was ppuing for a bunch of LE's and I ended up being the only one to get ganked.

That's true, but getting ganked is part of NC so nothing changes in regard to this. And imagine this: Maybe some of the LE'd guys will pull their LE out to help me the next time I get attacked.

I really like playing a PPU and it's a lot of fun for me to support people so this change is r0ck and r0ll for me Now I will always find a group, like it was back in the day.

However props for taking steps to get the two sides integrated. I am keen to see how the dynamic changes now for sure.

Yes, the LE won't go away so it must be integrated properly. After the LE players had to accept that their belongings are not protected anymore like the vehicles this is a positive point for them.

The logic is that the LE protects from damage being done by other players but it does not make sense to protect them from buffs because buffs don't do any harm. If buffing LEs is not possible the logic behind the LE is flawed.

It's very cool to see that the Volunteers Team does not forget the suggestions that were made. I remember the appropriate thread in the brainport months ago. Thank you again, you guys r0ck.

[Faid]

Un-LE'd people are still able to blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. This is wrong. At least keep it like it is now if you are insistant on doing this, all vehicles can damage other Vehicles regardless of LE status. Purposely giving un-LE'd people the power to destroy LE'd vehicles without any defense for the LE'd vehicle makes no sense at all period.

Are you trying to appease the LE'd communty by making un-LE'd PPU's be able to buff Le'd people? As if this would make up for the Vehicle debacle? I actually like the idea but the vehicle thing needs to be fixed.

The speed nerf is a good thing but it's going to dramatically shift the balance of classes in the game. Tank o cron seems the likely course. We need to balance the classes. Decrease tank damage, combined with the speed nerf spy's will die too fast now.

Thankyou for the trade bug fix lol.

[Dribble Joy]

Ath 0 / Agl 142
Test: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.588 Jump 0.759

Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.683 Jump 0.833

Not based on a combined total then (unless that total is very low).

[William Antrim]

It is not going to nerf le vehicles at all. They can still drive off. With the speed nerf they will be able to get away even faster.

I think weapon balancing should come in its own patch. Nerfing tank damage will only be a band aid solution. It should be more thoroughly tested before anything of that nature takes place.

[Faid]

It distinctly gives an advantage to UN-LE'd Characters. One creed tank can blow up a rhino in less than 1 clip of ammo, thats about 26 seconds. Two creed tanks can do it in half that time, 13 seconds to blow up an LE'd rhino. At least the way it is now you can't easily blow up a rhino with another rhino, it takes longer and there may be some time to shoot back or drive off. I tested this on the TS the other day and it was stupidly easy to destroy LE'd vehicles with UN-LE'd weapons. A quad die's in about 4 seconds. This is certainly going to be a huge problem for any LE'd person driving any vehicle.

Le'd vehicles have no defense, it's just ridiculous to implement this change, it's not justified at all. Anytime you can damage something and it cannot damage you back it's considered an exploit, or so Ive always been told by GM's. What is the reasoning for allowing UN-LE'd characters to destroy LE'd chars vehicles? I get the whole LE'd rhino parked on my loot thing but honestly, you're nerfing the entire Le'd vehicle system for a problem that scarcely exists. This particular change is so counter-productive and backwards I just can understand why they would even try to jutify it.

[Gunshifty]

Un-LE'd people are still able to blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. This is wrong. At least keep it like it is now if you are insistant on doing this, all vehicles can damage other Vehicles regardless of LE status. Purposely giving un-LE'd people the power to destroy LE'd vehicles without any defense for the LE'd vehicle makes no sense at all period.

Are you trying to appease the LE'd communty by making un-LE'd PPU's be able to buff Le'd people? As if this would make up for the Vehicle debacle? I actually like the idea but the vehicle thing needs to be fixed.

I agree with this, I think the Un-LE'd people are still getting screwed here. I feel like the discussion over the new implementation was not looked at or rather not considered. Is it not considered an exploit to be able for someone without an LE to damage an LE'd players vehicle, but not vice versa? Are you (the devs and people in charge of rolling this new vehicle patch) guys trying to force LE'd players out of the game or something? If so, why are you forcing people to play the PvP aspect of the game when there are plenty who enjoy the PvE aspect?

Like I said in a past post, LE'd vehicles should be able to damage LE'd vehicles. Un-LE'd vehicles should be able to damage Un_LE'd vehicles.

Not: UN-LE'd vehicles can damage LE'd vehicles and LE'd people can't do jack shiii because they chose to enjoy the PvE aspect of the game (in which case most MMOs have PvE/PvP aspects). I seriously think the DEV team needs to inquire additional & extensive input from the community about how they feel about this implementation. There is a strong LE'd community that doesn't read the forums and will be getting utterly screwed when they find out that they can't defend their vehicle because their in-game goal is to acquire rares/parts and not go killing other people.

[William Antrim]

If they dont come to the forum to have their say then how can they complain when these changes hit retail. Thats what the forum and test server are there for. If people cant be bothered to test then they should put up with the changes.

13 seconds is a long time to drive off in NC. If my Rhino started taking an ass load of damage I wouldnt hang around on the spot. Sure its not as nice as it used to be but I think this mechanic is well needed. It's not like the LE'd people are short of 200k for a new rhino anyway!


It will curb alot of the behaviour of LE'd people using the LE to hide behind and getting away with blue murder anyway. This is a good thing.

[Gunshifty]

If they dont come to the forum to have their say then how can they complain when these changes hit retail. Thats what the forum and test server are there for. If people cant be bothered to test then they should put up with the changes.

William you're right, if they don't come to the forum (which isn't mandatory), they don't get their say. However, imagine what OOC is going to look like when <insert poor-newbie guy's name who doesn't have a strong barring of the game> gets his vehicle blown up and can't understand why he wasn't able to do anything but "run/drive" away. What this also does is puts a huge dent on the vehicle market, and would then start driving people away from using non-combat/combat vehicles like rhinos, hovertec, trikes, etc (basically anything but a quad/reveler). In light of this, the anti-vehicle rocket launcher would then become popular only to once again become inept since..well.. no one will buy a vehicle unless they're UN-LE'd.

Now William, lets say those people who don't voice their opinions on the forums start voicing their opinions in game.. I'm sure OOC/Help loves hearing people flame the game (which really isn't good for the community).

The point is: take the time to analyze the implementation, gather discussion/insight with the entire community (maybe making some announcement on the launcher so that everyone who launches the game can see what they're going to do to vehicles, clearly stating it in english/german). It's better to take the time to think about this implementation rather than regretting it and losing a chunk of the population because people weren't happy with the changes. People should (and want to) have a say in what their beloved Neocron turns into especially when it's being ran by a great volunteer team.

[Kame]

Do ALL ppu spells work on LEd... As in HAB and DB as well ??

[Faid]

13 seconds is a long time to drive off in NC. If my Rhino started taking an ass load of damage I wouldnt hang around on the spot. Sure its not as nice as it used to be but I think this mechanic is well needed. It's not like the LE'd people are short of 200k for a new rhino anyway!


It will curb alot of the behaviour of LE'd people using the LE to hide behind and getting away with blue murder anyway. This is a good thing.

13 seconds is not enough time to drive off in NC, not with the overpowered damage of the creed and the range it has. So your justification is that LE'd people can afford another rhino after it gets blown up by Un-Le'd griefers?

This wont curb any behaviour but instead it will spawn new griefer behaviour by Un-LE'd people. This is a very bad thing.