1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post

    It also takes a (almost) capped resser and a ~1mil tool. And hopefully 2-3 ressearch chips like a ~2mil SS or ~2mil TH CPU. Now add to that your 500k value for empty cubes and substance.


    Leaving facts out of the equation again arn't we Kell ?

    Over and over you completely disregard the main requirement for making TL150's, which is the char and and the imps and the tool. That alone is a 20-25 hrs playing to get the XP (without cubes, remember you can't make them ?) and then saving up to for the chips and also SS CPU can be quite rare and not always available for purchase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    The underlying problem I see here is that he (OP) probably only bought the cubes from someone dumb enough to sell them under market price because they're either dumb or because they're dumb.
    My cubes are precious to me, highly valuable good that are worth a lot for the XP for the starter chars, it's true. This is why I don't sell them.



    Selling cubes at under market price is the problem.



    As for OP, if you think cubes are easy to make, you havn't ever made them thats for sure.

    I suggest you just go ahead and make one. Make a spy from scratch and lv it however you want and spec the necessary 225 ressearch points and buy a tool and make a few 249 stacks.

    Then come back and tell us how you feel about TL150's.
    Sigh... how many times do we need to cover this. I have been back only a few weeks. I already have a resser that can do this and 3 spies that are of a high enough level they could do it. You only need about 70 base INT to get started, You don't need the SS or the Hawkins chip, Just a TH CPU (which is easy to get as its an epic reward). You also can make enough of of TL 90 missions to buy your tool (which is 600k, even less if you ask Rosalia to get you one) and can then immediately start raking in funds.

    Just to be clear - It does not take 225 res to start doing these. It take around 200 res, and you can use buffs or drugs to lower that even further. Once you are doing them, you get 50k INT XP per cube, so it doesn't take long to level up. As for making a spy to do it, due to the double res, it took me less than 8 hours to turn a droner from new to PA. He could easily be lommed over and start producing cubes. If I didn't already have a resser I'd consider it.

    I am not guessing on making stuff up when I'm saying this. I actually have done this. I'm not saying there are not things you have to do to get this I'm saying in comparison with ALL OTHER FORMS OF INCOME it's got a ridiculously high profit margin. I mean even compare it to construction. It will cost around the same in grease, except that really does take over a million for the tool, you also cant just keep trying through fails, as a fail will likely destroy the cube meaning you have to drop and retake the mission. You also can't preemptively create a 249 stack of construction mission items. Then at the end of it you get half the reward.

    You are exaggerating how much time and cash goes into this, as you are afraid they will take this away and you won't be able to make huge volumes of cash. That's all that your raging trolling boils down to.

    Edit: Just to add, 1.5m - 1.7m is Market Price. Most ressers sell them for that at the moment. You may not agree and by all means keep yours to yourself, but that's the way the market is. It's probably that way because a lot of people manually making them are running a second PC, so running the mission themselves means they can't play their mains at the same time. Sitting at a factory, clicking once a minute or so they can still play their main chars on a second box.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorin View Post
    Even at the cap, the failure rate of researching the TL 150 cubes is around 33%. Of that, 33% of those are critical failures where the cube is destroyed (ok, yeah, cube cost is trivial). I remember the discussion back in the day and the resulting change to the research mission system - this is the reason for the really high return on investment for the TL 150 missions. It helps to recover the cost of the research lube that you chew through in doing this. Of course, regardless of having a barterer or not, the 30k still way more than covers it.

    And for the record, research missions DID used to be random. Each mission would always ask for 3BPs from a pool of 3 predetermined items for each mission TL level. For example, a TL 40 research mission would always ask for 3BPs of either implant xyz 2, implant abc 2, or implant def 2. You wouldn't know which one until you took the mission, and it was random. So you used to have to research stacks of these three items more or less equally. Then, at the next mission TL level, 3 whole new items.

    I'm with Kame; I don't sell my cubes. Far too precious to spare the 800k-1M nc lost to selling the stack. 2.5M for a couple of hours running 83 missions is worth it. All that work for up to 1M nc less would kill me a little inside.
    Well that's just not right. Even at 210 res you only fail 1 in 4 (25%). Where are you getting the 33% failure rate from? A guy was making them not even at a lab yesterday, with only 85 base INT, and he only failed every 5th or 6th cube (i thought he was crazy since he's FA and there loads of labs he could go to).

    The reason you say "it's worth it" is because its drastically higher than other forms of income... And can be done on a second PC while still playing your main...
    Last edited by Lucas Kell; 12-03-13 at 11:57.

  2. #62
    Loitering With Intent Cornhusker's Avatar
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    Lucas Kell, you are over looking the fact also that the construction mission has by far a less chance to fail due to getting construction 2 and 3 implants being in. Let alone, that it takes less time to make than 3 research cubes for a missions.

    Also, I saw someone mention the fact that the missions should be ended like kill missions. My question then is how do you expect others to level up faster as initial for missions then again this might be an even bigger issue. You guys do realize that it would then be easier to take advantage of this that way. The reason I bring this up is that during a research mission you MUST research something. Meaning if you get 1 item then you can still cancel the mission and hence the mass researching of items will happen again/anyway, only difference that will happen is the fact that you won't even need to run all over the faction HQ as oh my god that is right it will be in your inventory and be removed instantly to just be done with absolutely NO effort as well. Is this the path we are truly thinking of going down? I think this is a joke of an idea.

    Also, I am sadly forced to mention this as the biggest concern this constantly keeps coming back to. This will not cause major issues in the game economy for the cash made. I never considered it until others mentioned this as well, but money is not the main resource in the game. How many times do you do a deal only in cash other than for a leveling item? Or hell, spend money to buy a rare? I have barely ever sold a rare item for cash only unless I never needed it or complete crap on slots and stats due to horrible constructor that lied on their true stats for construct. The only time I have dealt with cash on the deal is only for implants or to sweeten the deal on an item I trading for or another item or parts. So, I have to say, how much will certain people that have tons of cash really screw up the economy? Maybe I am over looking a key figure as I don't think people that have 40 billion cash in game compared to a person that has just 3 to 4 million can cause devastating damage to the game economy.

    I personally think this topic should be put on the back burner until the issues with the server being unstable is resolved along with other major issues that are slowly still being worked on. Hell, I feel this topic should be even put behind the re-balancing project that will by far make things more how should I put it, more viable to see how cash could possibly become an issue in game. Also, maybe I am on the wrong times during everyone else that brings up these issues, but I don't see prices constantly going up for items. In fact, most items I see being sold are by far way lower price compared to terra ever was, and most days I see items constantly getting lower priced due to the fact that people are being stubborn for buying right now as the money isn't available to everyone.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
    Lucas Kell, you are over looking the fact also that the construction mission has by far a less chance to fail due to getting construction 2 and 3 implants being in. Let alone, that it takes less time to make than 3 research cubes for a missions.

    Also, I saw someone mention the fact that the missions should be ended like kill missions. My question then is how do you expect others to level up faster as initial for missions then again this might be an even bigger issue. You guys do realize that it would then be easier to take advantage of this that way. The reason I bring this up is that during a research mission you MUST research something. Meaning if you get 1 item then you can still cancel the mission and hence the mass researching of items will happen again/anyway, only difference that will happen is the fact that you won't even need to run all over the faction HQ as oh my god that is right it will be in your inventory and be removed instantly to just be done with absolutely NO effort as well. Is this the path we are truly thinking of going down? I think this is a joke of an idea.

    Also, I am sadly forced to mention this as the biggest concern this constantly keeps coming back to. This will not cause major issues in the game economy for the cash made. I never considered it until others mentioned this as well, but money is not the main resource in the game. How many times do you do a deal only in cash other than for a leveling item? Or hell, spend money to buy a rare? I have barely ever sold a rare item for cash only unless I never needed it or complete crap on slots and stats due to horrible constructor that lied on their true stats for construct. The only time I have dealt with cash on the deal is only for implants or to sweeten the deal on an item I trading for or another item or parts. So, I have to say, how much will certain people that have tons of cash really screw up the economy? Maybe I am over looking a key figure as I don't think people that have 40 billion cash in game compared to a person that has just 3 to 4 million can cause devastating damage to the game economy.

    I personally think this topic should be put on the back burner until the issues with the server being unstable is resolved along with other major issues that are slowly still being worked on. Hell, I feel this topic should be even put behind the re-balancing project that will by far make things more how should I put it, more viable to see how cash could possibly become an issue in game. Also, maybe I am on the wrong times during everyone else that brings up these issues, but I don't see prices constantly going up for items. In fact, most items I see being sold are by far way lower price compared to terra ever was, and most days I see items constantly getting lower priced due to the fact that people are being stubborn for buying right now as the money isn't available to everyone.
    You realise the REASON cash is not used is because the economy is fucked right? When too much cash is injected into an economy the value of that cash declines. This has happened in NC to the point that cash is nearly valueless. Because of this people try to make more and more cash and not spend it, which it turn devalues it faster.
    Newcomers to the game will arrive and not be able to afford anything and can't start getting techs until much later, so by destroying the economy, we are alienating new players.

    The amount of cash in the system, including inactive accounts is around 5 billion. That's all players and clan banks combined = 5 billion (about 2000 stacks of Res missions) So the effect of injecting 1.5 - 2 million cash into the game for every stack of res missions is massive. To give you an idea, based on the GDP of the UK, that would be the equivalent of every stack injecting around 1 Trillion pounds into the economy.

  4. #64
    Loitering With Intent Cornhusker's Avatar
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    You also do realize that the reason why cash is meaningless right now to the economy is simply because the server is still new. People want the biggest bang for their buck right? 5 billion on this server right now on all characters in game? How do you get these figures so I can truly see what you referring to versus made up figures to simply try to prove a false point.

    I still see items made for nothing cash wise or free for leveling. Only thing you can say on items wise is the rares, which as I pointed out, I rather trade a weapon for another weapon or rares for item as you know your truly gaining something. Cash in game like I stated for me is merely buying imps armor and drugs. So how will in game cash mean the difference to anything.

    If the cash flow from these missions is the biggest issue maybe we should slow down cash flow from mobs as well then as droners or aoe type characters in general can make just as much in a few hours of grinding if you prefer to go that route, only difference in that scenario is that you are gaining truly viable xp compared to a measly 1300xp and some cash. See what I am getting at. This supposed problem is nothing to me in my eyes, as I rather not deal with cash for currency as compared to identified rares/unidentified rares for trades for at least on rare weapons etc.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
    You also do realize that the reason why cash is meaningless right now to the economy is simply because the server is still new. People want the biggest bang for their buck right? 5 billion on this server right now on all characters in game? How do you get these figures so I can truly see what you referring to versus made up figures to simply try to prove a false point.

    I still see items made for nothing cash wise or free for leveling. Only thing you can say on items wise is the rares, which as I pointed out, I rather trade a weapon for another weapon or rares for item as you know your truly gaining something. Cash in game like I stated for me is merely buying imps armor and drugs. So how will in game cash mean the difference to anything.

    If the cash flow from these missions is the biggest issue maybe we should slow down cash flow from mobs as well then as droners or aoe type characters in general can make just as much in a few hours of grinding if you prefer to go that route, only difference in that scenario is that you are gaining truly viable xp compared to a measly 1300xp and some cash. See what I am getting at. This supposed problem is nothing to me in my eyes, as I rather not deal with cash for currency as compared to identified rares/unidentified rares for trades for at least on rare weapons etc.
    I'm getting those stats from the games statistics on the CityCom.

    There's no way a droner can grind up 2.5m in a few hours.

    It's nothing to you, but it's something to anyone that wants to see the server population grow.

    As for 1300xp and some cash, let break down the 249 Stack:
    So assuming you have no barter, it costs 5k/pack of lube and lube we know is about 3 cubes per pack.
    So lets say there's a 30% failure rate (will be a lot less than this for a high level character) and assume every fail breaks the cube, that means you need enough lube for 324 attampts, which is 108 packs of lube [540k]
    Cubes we'll inflate too and say 100nc per cube (it's really about 70) so you need 324 cubes [33k]
    So your total cost of consumable items is 573k.
    (by the way, to get consumable costs without a barterer up to a point that this mission would break even, you'd have to fail each cube 5 times before you made each one, breaking the cube every time)

    Now lets add up what you get:
    Each cube yields 50k INT exp: so 249*50k = 12.45m INT XP
    Each stack is 83 Missions, at 1300xp/mission and 30000nc/mission, so:107900 xp (per skill, 539500 xp total) and 2.49m nc

    So overall your consumable costs are 573k and you gain a total of 2.49m nc and 12,989,500 experience.

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    The logic of Mr Kell is flawless.

    The only conclusion of it is that compared to other ways of leveling and making money the TL 150 res missions are unbalanced.

    I think Mr Kell's aim is not personal gain but to make the game better for the comm.

    Thank you.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    The logic of Mr Kell is flawless.

    The only conclusion of it is that compared to other ways of leveling and making money the TL 150 res missions are unbalanced.

    I think Mr Kell's aim is not personal gain but to make the game better for the comm.

    Thank you.
    This

    Its a serious Threat to Economy in this game. Dont make Barters obsolete again please. The market is flodded with Money again and that is a bad thing. Many Players enjoy the wheeling and dealing in Neorcon. Do not underestimate this, the trading and Economy-System in NC is unique and for many of us a big reason why we play the game.
    I allways thought it was a bad idea to get Money just from killing Mobs. Let them loot and sell. But thats another Topic.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Kell View Post
    I'm getting those stats from the games statistics on the CityCom.

    There's no way a droner can grind up 2.5m in a few hours.

    It's nothing to you, but it's something to anyone that wants to see the server population grow.

    As for 1300xp and some cash, let break down the 249 Stack:
    So assuming you have no barter, it costs 5k/pack of lube and lube we know is about 3 cubes per pack.
    So lets say there's a 30% failure rate (will be a lot less than this for a high level character) and assume every fail breaks the cube, that means you need enough lube for 324 attampts, which is 108 packs of lube [540k]
    Cubes we'll inflate too and say 100nc per cube (it's really about 70) so you need 324 cubes [33k]
    So your total cost of consumable items is 573k.
    (by the way, to get consumable costs without a barterer up to a point that this mission would break even, you'd have to fail each cube 5 times before you made each one, breaking the cube every time)

    Now lets add up what you get:
    Each cube yields 50k INT exp: so 249*50k = 12.45m INT XP
    Each stack is 83 Missions, at 1300xp/mission and 30000nc/mission, so:107900 xp (per skill, 539500 xp total) and 2.49m nc

    So overall your consumable costs are 573k and you gain a total of 2.49m nc and 12,989,500 experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    The logic of Mr Kell is flawless.

    The only conclusion of it is that compared to other ways of leveling and making money the TL 150 res missions are unbalanced.

    I think Mr Kell's aim is not personal gain but to make the game better for the comm.

    Thank you.

    Absolutely agreed. I think the issue that these are masking is that low level leveling is quite painful. I would be in favor of leaving cube xp where it is (for the moment), largely nerfing gold produced, and revisiting the xp once leveling at lowish levels has been tweaked.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by onero S View Post
    ... I would be in favor of leaving cube xp where it is (for the moment), largely nerfing gold produced, and revisiting the xp once leveling at lowish levels has been tweaked.
    I think that's a solid compromise for the time being.

  10. #70
    Profit, Terras Barter Nr. 1 Ashanti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assimilator View Post
    I think that's a solid compromise for the time being.
    Sounds ok to me too. Still leaves potential Newbies alone in the low level areas but that Number should be pretty small anyway, while the Money affects the Game of many Players.
    Terras Barter Nr. 1 is back

    now known as Real Profit

    More Profit with Profit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Assimilator View Post
    I think that's a solid compromise for the time being.
    /signed

  12. #72
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    you should only be able to hand in a res missions if you ressed the actual item.

  13. #73

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    Maybe some evil mean clan should just take all the labs over and lock them for personal use only then... that takes away a lot of the player bonus and means you need more skill :P

    Also you can get res subs for about 2.5k on a barter who is in the clan owning an op, that does inflate the profit margin by loads.

    So yes I see that there is to much money available from these types of missions, but everyone has access to those missions, it isn't just a few so they can all do it.
    Equally the cost of things is worked out based on such things, so for instance I can farm MC5 for 1-2 hours, and kill a base commander every 3-4 mins. So in 1 hour with a 5min kill time (cos it makes it easier) I can gather 12 MC5 rares, each MC5 takes 6 to make, so I can make 2 MC5s an hour if I am lucky and get all the right parts. Each made MC5 sells for between 500k for something like a riggers up to 2 - 2.5 mil for ballistic & DIP.
    If you make cubes it takes you 1 min (I think) per cube, and 3 cubes per mission, so 20 missions an hour before delivering them if you have 0 fails. So per mission if you buy with barter and stuff you spend 2.5k a mission and get 18k if sold, 30k if handed in. So profit of 20 (60 cubes made = number of missions worth you can make in 1 hour) X 15.5k (amount of profit per missions worth made) = 310k in 1 hour...

    So I make more hunting MC5.... or Regants solo... or warbots... or technically doing preaty much anything I can sell rare parts from. Even just doing firemobs works out as more as you can sell AR10s for 7.5k each to Yo's and you get 3-4k a mob + rare parts.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by demonssword View Post
    Maybe some evil mean clan should just take all the labs over and lock them for personal use only then... that takes away a lot of the player bonus and means you need more skill :P

    Also you can get res subs for about 2.5k on a barter who is in the clan owning an op, that does inflate the profit margin by loads.

    So yes I see that there is to much money available from these types of missions, but everyone has access to those missions, it isn't just a few so they can all do it.
    Equally the cost of things is worked out based on such things, so for instance I can farm MC5 for 1-2 hours, and kill a base commander every 3-4 mins. So in 1 hour with a 5min kill time (cos it makes it easier) I can gather 12 MC5 rares, each MC5 takes 6 to make, so I can make 2 MC5s an hour if I am lucky and get all the right parts. Each made MC5 sells for between 500k for something like a riggers up to 2 - 2.5 mil for ballistic & DIP.
    If you make cubes it takes you 1 min (I think) per cube, and 3 cubes per mission, so 20 missions an hour before delivering them if you have 0 fails. So per mission if you buy with barter and stuff you spend 2.5k a mission and get 18k if sold, 30k if handed in. So profit of 20 (60 cubes made = number of missions worth you can make in 1 hour) X 15.5k (amount of profit per missions worth made) = 310k in 1 hour...

    So I make more hunting MC5.... or Regants solo... or warbots... or technically doing preaty much anything I can sell rare parts from. Even just doing firemobs works out as more as you can sell AR10s for 7.5k each to Yo's and you get 3-4k a mob + rare parts.
    Of course you can make more farming MC5s... But since you can farm MC5s and repeatedly click research on another pc/laptop you can both research and farm MC5s at the same time. If you had to actively work to research, this would be less of an issue, but its just a click and forget kind of thing. I usually level up one char or go out mobbing while working through a few stacks of res cubes on another.

  15. #75
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Kell View Post
    Of course you can make more farming MC5s... But since you can farm MC5s and repeatedly click research on another pc/laptop you can both research and farm MC5s at the same time. If you had to actively work to research, this would be less of an issue, but its just a click and forget kind of thing. I usually level up one char or go out mobbing while working through a few stacks of res cubes on another.
    <OT>i don't think "mobbing" means what you think it does. </OT>

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