TL 150 Research Missions

[nabbl]

It is the same with techs. Getting Techs is too easy. Same with money.

The current cost-benefit-ratio is very good for casual players at the moment. But it is even better for the hardcore gamers.
This system has to be rebalanced in some way. (Same with OP-rewards and so on)

[Faid]

Easiest and most correct way to fix the problem: Make tl150 research missions completed upon actual completion of the cube. Exactly the same as the kill missions. Problem solved, you don't have to worry about the economy, the money, the XP, people macroing at Chester, none of it. Make it the way it is intended to be. Do the same with recycle and construct missions. Why is this so difficult?

[Lucas Kell]

Easiest and most correct way to fix the problem: Make tl150 research missions completed upon actual completion of the cube. Exactly the same as the kill missions. Problem solved, you don't have to worry about the economy, the money, the XP, people macroing at Chester, none of it. Make it the way it is intended to be. Do the same with recycle and construct missions. Why is this so difficult?

Yeah, this is /signed.

[Dropout]

As one of the people at Chester, I do not agree with nerfing tl150's at all.
I level my resser there (on my secondary monitor) while leveling another character/watching movies.
I use these tl150's as a source of income and a way of leveling noob characters.

The problem we have to address is the ones that we are not allowed to talk about. With that problem fixed, NOTHING is wrong with tl150's as it is a VERY time consuming process, it require quite a Funding to get startet.

[Lucas Kell]

As one of the people at Chester, I do not agree with nerfing tl150's at all.
I level my resser there (on my secondary monitor) while leveling another character/watching movies.
I use these tl150's as a source of income and a way of leveling noob characters.

The problem we have to address is the ones that we are not allowed to talk about. With that problem fixed, NOTHING is wrong with tl150's as it is a VERY time consuming process, it require quite a Funding to get startet.

Except it doesn't take that much funding to get started. It takes 500k to produce a Stack, but if you produce 9 cubes then hand in you can quickly ramp up how many you need to make.

Think about the reason you use that method to make income and level your alts. Its the fastest way to do both right? And you do it while watching TV or playing another character? So you are saying the best way to level and make cash can be done while as close to AFK as you can get, and this isn't unbalanced?
Come on...

[Faid]

Again, I think the whole point of the research mission is that you get credit for actually researching the item, therefore you should only get credit for completing the cubes as you do them. Just like the kill missions are designed that people get credit for killing the designated mob. Recycle and construct missions should work the same.

I understand that people want to keep them the way they are because it's a ridiulously fast and easy way to level low chars and get rich, but it doesnt mean it's right. Used to be that droning was the fast easy way to level and get rich, but they fixed that. How is this any different?

[Dundonian]

I hate to bring it up, cos it's a brilliant way of making cash, but TL 150 research missions really break the economy. Researchers can sell the cubes for 6k a piece and still turn a profit, and the mission runnners earn 10k per cube. This means its pretty easy to turn a few hundred thousand NC into a few million in a very short space of time.

Now I understand that missions still need to be around for all trades and that they need to pay fairly, but to me this just means huge amounts of cash is injected into the economy from the ether without much effort.

My suggestion to correct this is 2 actions. These could also be applied to other missions.

1. Reward for the mission is brought down a small amount to adjust for the realistic price of production. 6-7k per cube (18k - 21k per mission) should be enough reward so researchers can make money doing missions with their profession but reduce the amount of bulk cube sales.

2. The mission should generate a number of different varieties of BP requirement. So instead of its all being just a single type of v-hard-3 cube, after accepting the mission, you speak to the first guy, and he give you one of a random selection of cubes. This should be at least 5-10 varieties of mission item. This will prevent someone being able to buy a single stack knowing that they have everything they need for any TL150 Res mission for that faction.

Like I say, I hate to bring this up as its an easy way to make money which is great for an individual, but the economy of the game needs to be made more stable, and injection of funds of this degree is not a way to maintain this.

I have a counter Idea you should pick your PC up dont unplug and rip it out of the wall and throw it out of the window and dont come back gg

Honestly the Devs time is much needed on things that are currently breaking the game rather than whining about the fact others are making easy money and your just bitter about it id like to add I do not have a researcher but from time to time i bore myself to death and do them to help level my noob chars

[Lucas Kell]

I have a counter Idea you should pick your PC up dont unplug and rip it out of the wall and throw it out of the window and dont come back gg

Honestly the Devs time is much needed on things that are currently breaking the game rather than whining about the fact others are making easy money and your just bitter about it id like to add I do not have a researcher but from time to time i bore myself to death and do them to help level my noob chars

OK angry
In my opinion, the state of the economy and the effect that has on new players is a fairly critical issue that needs to be addressed. I'm not telling you you have to agree, but viewpoints others that your own aren't necessarily wrong.

As for being bitter, why would I be bitter? I've said a few times in this thread (if you'd bothered to read it) that I myself run these missions. They are the best way to level noobs and make cash, so of course I run them. But I'm willing to look at the bigger picture and say "This is not good for the game. This issue needs to be addressed, even if it cuts off a major revenue stream for myself as well."

What I don't do is suggest people leave the game simply because I disagree with what they have to say and can't think of a counter point.

[Kame]

Except it doesn't take that much funding to get started. It takes 500k to produce a Stack, but if you produce 9 cubes then hand in you can quickly ramp up how many you need to make.

It also takes a (almost) capped resser and a ~1mil tool. And hopefully 2-3 ressearch chips like a ~2mil SS or ~2mil TH CPU. Now add to that your 500k value for empty cubes and substance.




Leaving facts out of the equation again arn't we Kell ?

Except it doesn't take that much funding to get started.

Over and over you completely disregard the main requirement for making TL150's, which is the char and and the imps and the tool. That alone is a 20-25 hrs playing to get the XP (without cubes, remember you can't make them ?) and then saving up to for the chips and also SS CPU can be quite rare and not always available for purchase.

[Faid]

It also takes a (almost) capped resser and a ~1mil tool. And hopefully 2-3 ressearch chips like a ~2mil SS or ~2mil TH CPU. Now add to that your 500k value for empty cubes and substance.










Over and over you completely disregard the main requirement for making TL150's, which is the char and and the imps and the tool. That alone is a 20-25 hrs playing to get the XP (without cubes, remember you can't make them ?) and then saving up to for the chips and also SS CPU can be quite rare and not always available for purchase.

I don't think anyone's arguing that the original resser shouldn't get credit for doing the missions. As you point out it's rather difficult to get started and I think the large reward for these missions should be rewarded to the researcher who has to go through all the trouble of buying the tool, getting the chips etc. Not some 0/2 noob char who is too lazy to level the intended way.

[Kame]

The underlying problem I see here is that he (OP) probably only bought the cubes from someone dumb enough to sell them under market price because they're either dumb or because they're dumb.
My cubes are precious to me, highly valuable good that are worth a lot for the XP for the starter chars, it's true. This is why I don't sell them.



Selling cubes at under market price is the problem.



As for OP, if you think cubes are easy to make, you havn't ever made them thats for sure.

I suggest you just go ahead and make one. Make a spy from scratch and lv it however you want and spec the necessary 225 ressearch points and buy a tool and make a few 249 stacks.

Then come back and tell us how you feel about TL150's.

[Ivan Eres]

The underlying problem I see here is that he (OP) probably only bought the cubes from someone dumb enough to sell them under market price because they're either dumb or because they're dumb.
My cubes are precious to me, highly valuable good that are worth a lot for the XP for the starter chars, it's true. This is why I don't sell them.

Selling cubes at under market price is the problem.

As for OP, if you think cubes are easy to make, you havn't ever made them thats for sure.

I suggest you just go ahead and make one. Make a spy from scratch and lv it however you want and spec the necessary 225 ressearch points and buy a tool and make a few 249 stacks.

Then come back and tell us how you feel about TL150's.

If they are sold under price the effort to make them must have been quite low.

The reason must be that an illegal way was being used to make them.

Countering that would be very good. This is an old subject.

Crazy idea: Maybe researching should be changed to be more like hacking

Or a more serious idea: All processor slots are numbered. After researching is started a number is seen flashing. You must press the appropriate number on the processor to start the next res. This is a kind of captcha, as someony jokingly suggested before.

[Deno]

People are missing a subtle point here when discussing the effect on the economy. They say the cost is huge (5 mil for tools/implants). With the exception of the tool ALL the money goes to other players. So the only money sink (as in money that has left the economy) is from the tool and the raw materials. The net influx of cash into the economy is therefore massive. Personally I think they need to decrease the cash payments received upon killing higher level mobs to really address the problem. After leveling through El Farid and other AoE dungeons most players are not short of cash.

[braydagner]

Look, if I wanted to, I could go out and make over a couple million in a night without selling to players or running missions. The money is always going to be farmed in one way or another, there is no getting around that. And some researchers use OPs to help them be able to research/contruct said cubes. Are they supposed to spend half of their time waiting off SI every time they want to run one mission? How is that fair to tradeskillers? Again, it's just another idea to screw over non-PVP aspects of the game.

When you first start researching 150 cubes, you break and fail more than you make, but the XP is still worth it. You're losing money from the start, why not make it up later on?

And 500k to make a stack sounds like a barter's price for the materials. Not everyone has access to a barter.

Your argument is like Swiss cheese. As in, you think it's holy and I think it lacks enough substance.

[Sorin]

Even at the cap, the failure rate of researching the TL 150 cubes is around 33%. Of that, 33% of those are critical failures where the cube is destroyed (ok, yeah, cube cost is trivial). I remember the discussion back in the day and the resulting change to the research mission system - this is the reason for the really high return on investment for the TL 150 missions. It helps to recover the cost of the research lube that you chew through in doing this. Of course, regardless of having a barterer or not, the 30k still way more than covers it.

And for the record, research missions DID used to be random. Each mission would always ask for 3BPs from a pool of 3 predetermined items for each mission TL level. For example, a TL 40 research mission would always ask for 3BPs of either implant xyz 2, implant abc 2, or implant def 2. You wouldn't know which one until you took the mission, and it was random. So you used to have to research stacks of these three items more or less equally. Then, at the next mission TL level, 3 whole new items.

I'm with Kame; I don't sell my cubes. Far too precious to spare the 800k-1M nc lost to selling the stack. 2.5M for a couple of hours running 83 missions is worth it. All that work for up to 1M nc less would kill me a little inside.