TL 150 Research Missions

[Lucas Kell]

Faid the cubes have to come from somwhere and be made by someone.


Regardless of macro or not, the character that produces the cubes has to have had some investment to it, so the comparison made by thread starter was flawed. Someone actually had to invest money to get the cubes done.

LOL
So you are saying macroing to gain money is OK?

I really don't think you've looked at how cheap to produce these cubes are...

[SovKhan]

This should be addressed with larger changes to the game, not something that needs to be changed now because its game breaking broken. The entire mission system as a whole should be addressed but likely needs a bunch more pve balancing before it is even feasible.

[Cornhusker]

My question to you is, yes you make a profit off these missions but have you actually ran a stack of TL150 missions? That is 83 missions, if you have the patience and diligence to run all those missions than by all means you are an amazing individual is all I can say. If I can make it past running 10 missions I am doing good in a day.

The fact also remains you say how easy it is to level up etc etc. But, have you put the facts to how long it takes to select the mission and then run all those? You might actually level faster if you have all the weapons made first and level by killing repetitive mobs over and over.

Hell, if they take away ability to run all those missions and don't fix mission selection prompt. Why not just make ability of making a character that is almost capped or capped just so you can by pass leveling if your not into pve. See we can always complain on and on, and come up with more ridiculous arguments to possibly implement into the game. Sigh.

[eNTi]

wow... i wonder why this is even an issue, but then again the BORED TO THEIR WITS exploiters want the easiest way to play! WTF. i say BAN people who are using this active exploit and take away the possibility to turn in those missions without the required skill. you are not even arguing two EQUAL sides here. you are arguing for an EXPLOIT to be left in the game because you can't be bothered with playing any more. go play something else. it's like those banksters say... you need money to make money. the game economy is broken as it is and you just want an easy cop out. to big to fail, to big to jail? i beg to differ.

[hatmankh]

You need to calm down there, no one's saying "don't ban exploiters, we want them in the game". If we knew and could prove, who is exploiting the missions, they'd already be banned. Sorry, it's not enough to just say someone is obviously exploiting because they're selling hundreds of cubes or have a lot of credits, so ban them. This isn't some 13 year old's counter strike server where you can ban anyone because they're "obviously cheating", there needs to be proof.

Honestly, I'm not fully convinced people are macroing, wasn't that annoying processor window move after every few uses added to prevent that?

[Trivaldi]

Exploit discussion stops here for the sake of the thread. Macroing is not permitted in game. Let's get back on to the topic at hand.

Cheers,

[Lucas Kell]

My question to you is, yes you make a profit off these missions but have you actually ran a stack of TL150 missions? That is 83 missions, if you have the patience and diligence to run all those missions than by all means you are an amazing individual is all I can say. If I can make it past running 10 missions I am doing good in a day.

The fact also remains you say how easy it is to level up etc etc. But, have you put the facts to how long it takes to select the mission and then run all those? You might actually level faster if you have all the weapons made first and level by killing repetitive mobs over and over.

Hell, if they take away ability to run all those missions and don't fix mission selection prompt. Why not just make ability of making a character that is almost capped or capped just so you can by pass leveling if your not into pve. See we can always complain on and on, and come up with more ridiculous arguments to possibly implement into the game. Sigh.

It really doesn't take very long at all. You can run all 83 within 2 hours easily. In that time you should end up with at least 20 in every skill, and 2.5m nc. You can't get anywhere near that level of income at a low level that quickly, and could only manage to level you main stats that quickly through combat. The missions as they are render SL useless, destroy the economy with huge income and cause low level areas to be empty of players.

Honestly, I'm not fully convinced people are macroing, wasn't that annoying processor window move after every few uses added to prevent that?

Without meaning to break Trivaldi's ruling in any way, the moving of the processor window really doesn't really affect exploiters. It is really really irritating when manually building a BP Library however, especially when you are OCD about your windows not overlapping

[Kame]

Look i dont know why you talk like TL150s are easy. They are not, they require 225+ ressearch skill to be made and they take a TON of time to make.

I dont understand why you guys talk about the missions and deliberatly leave the ressearch and it's requirement out of discussion. The missions still have to be made by someone with a cap resser.


People are stupid to sell them for cheap. I personnally make all my BPs manually and would NEVER sell them at a loss to someone else : i run em all myself.

[Lucas Kell]

Look i dont know why you talk like TL150s are easy. They are not, they require 225+ ressearch skill to be made and they take a TON of time to make.

I dont understand why you guys talk about the missions and deliberatly leave the ressearch and it's requirement out of discussion. The missions still have to be made by someone with a cap resser.


People are stupid to sell them for cheap. I personnally make all my BPs manually and would NEVER sell them at a loss to someone else : i run em all myself.

Firstly, I never said the RESEARCH was easy.
I'm not asking for the missions to be removed. I just want it to be so that a researcher cant just sell stacks and stacks of cubes and other people then run the missions.
Secondly, the cost of making 249 TL 150s is around 500k, so the mission reward is 500% of the base cost. TOO HIGH!
Thirdly, they are easy. They don't really fail that much and they can be done while dual boxing with another char. Just turn up the sound and listen for the finish sound.

Don't make it sound like its some epic journey to make them and you get stiffed at the end. It's a ridiculously easy way to make a huge volume of cash in nearly no time. Compared to any other method of gathering cash, its by far the quickest.

(I too manually create these. Hey, I want the loophole fixed, doesn't mean I'm not gonna use it while it's there)

[Deno]

Personally (although I don't agree with exploiting) I would not really have any issue with players transferring stacks of BPs to their alts and then running tl150 missions to level up. The real issue for me is the effect on the economy. With these sort of missions being run the amount of money entering the economy is much greater than the amount leaving it. This is one of the contributions (although in my opinion not the main one). This means inevitably rampant inflation will screw the economy over in the long run.

Before Terra shut down it was ridiculous. For veteran players money was almost meaningless. I think at peak my chars had a couple of hundred million between them (cash!) and countless parts and rares and I wasn't even wealthy compared to some players. If a new player were to join in this state they would probably struggle horribly to buy rares at their over-inflated prices.

We have a great opportunity for a fresh start with the new server but as it stands the economy is going to end up in exactly the same state as Terra was.

And I can confirm seeing literally 10 people standing around the gogo at Chester. I was enroute to MB and initially assumed I'd run into an OP fight in progress when I saw the local. When I got inside I quickly realised what was going on (especially when no one responded to my chat messages!).

[Cornhusker]

Deno, if you had so much money you obviously didn't do much in terra, I was broke on so many characters as I was always pvp'in to much to make money. Let alone I say this to, another route to 'fix' the broken economy is to make it so that repair guys can't repair as much and condition worsens instead of staying same whether all points in repair or just 30 points pretty much, along with making weapons such as rares that you had tons of parts back then break easier to make it so that the economy keeps moving for buying new weapons since 'everyone' is so rich. But, not everyone use to run missions as I never ran missions as it was extremely boring to me. But, then again it was me, everyone can say everyone does it, but look around I don't think everyone runs missions past that initial /20 to /25 area if they even do that. Reason why I am saying this is because, how many people did you know that would just buy a rare weapon for tons of millions of cash just cause they had endless cash.

I personally have to say this, yes people might start with it if they can, but not all can and the economy won't be messed up to bad, since people are selling the stack of TL150 missions for what? 1.5 or 1.7 million a stack? Maybe I am mistaken, but that does not mean they are getting 2.5 mil a stack as they had to pay for half already. Also, not unless you have a character you made first or someone nice gave them to you, you have to have at least one character to make money so you can pay for them...... well unless you made the missions yourself which again means you had already leveled a character.

I also want to point this out as well, others mentioned this as well, not everyone likes pve or pvp but likes to tradeskill, granted they are the oddballs of the game, but everyone has a thing they like to do in the game. Taking away the profits they like to do in game. As in profits in their regards might help you but will disappoint them and make them come here to complain on the actions you didn't like and try to force a change.

Maybe we are looking into the wrong venture is my opinion. Maybe to stop the people doing wrong, in not making missions themselves but by third party means, we need to think a means to fix the processor so that those programs are not viable anymore. Not sure if that is possible, but I think that would be the easier concept to try to work around rather than take away rights in the game that people that have played a long time on multiple characters means of fast initial leveling.

[Deno]

I don't know if the suggestion that all I merely did on Terra was 'sit around amassing wealth' was a thinly veiled personal attack or what, but it's hardly relevant to this discussion. For your information I spent 95% of my time PvPing as anyone who knew me could testify... It's not difficult to both pvp and be ridiculously rich when you've been on the same server for years...

Changing the game to make macroing impossible is probably too difficult (I doubt they can just put in a Captcha after every processor use...). I also think you miss the entire point about it wrecking the economy. If this practice is as widespread as people suggest it is, then huge amounts of money are entering the economy with nowhere else to go. Someone suggested making items degrade faster. This would increase the rate at which money left the economy, but could become annoying. Might be easier just to increase the prices of things.

Anyway, this thread isn't focused on the economic aspects. I personally think there's not much they can do about it (it is afterall a legitimate way of leveling an alt). It's an option that some people choose and other than the potential impact on the economy it has no detrimental effect on other players, although I personally can't stand the idea of spending several hours repeating the same mission over and over again...

A serious discussion on how we could improve the economy is definitely warranted though.

[braydagner]

One sentence.

There are so many more important things to fix than 150 missions.


Okay, another few sentences.

The introduction of more money sinks is a more viable solution to a money laden economy. Money doesn't buy a whole hell of a lot lately, as trades have always been more beneficial to high-level, devout players. And the people that buy stacks usually already have a ton of money if they are spending upwards of 1.5m on cubes. If a researcher has capped STR, CON, and PSI, it is more beneficial to him to sell the cubes rather than run every cube he made to get him to that level. 1300 XP is nothing to a tradeskiller when it takes a couple million points to level; why not do what is most prudent, i.e. sell the cubes to someone that gets more use of them creating a profit for your time spent?

[Lucas Kell]

One sentence.

There are so many more important things to fix than 150 missions.


Okay, another few sentences.

The introduction of more money sinks is a more viable solution to a money laden economy. Money doesn't buy a whole hell of a lot lately, as trades have always been more beneficial to high-level, devout players. And the people that buy stacks usually already have a ton of money if they are spending upwards of 1.5m on cubes. If a researcher has capped STR, CON, and PSI, it is more beneficial to him to sell the cubes rather than run every cube he made to get him to that level. 1300 XP is nothing to a tradeskiller when it takes a couple million points to level; why not do what is most prudent, i.e. sell the cubes to someone that gets more use of them creating a profit for your time spent?

You realise that the reson that money doesn't buy a hell of a lot, is the generation of money such as this has devalued money to the point that it is close to worthless right? That's the whole point of this thread.
If you are a new player (the type we are trying to encourage to play to bring the game back) the economy means you can't join in with everyone else as you simply can't draw enough money.

[Lucas Kell]

Just to add to the discussion:
As of just now, according to the stats there 5,104,462,465 nc in the system across players and clans. When you think about how small the player base is, this is a ridiculous amount of cash to have floating in the economy.