Thread: Shield breakers

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  1. #1
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Default Shield breakers

    I think that freezer guns should be changed to be shield breakers.

    I think all freezers should break one shield - randomly ideally.

    Melee shockers should do the same. No freeze speed effect but they should remove a shield instead.



    What do you think?
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    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I think that freezer guns should be changed to be shield breakers.

    I think all freezers should break one shield - randomly ideally.

    Melee shockers should do the same. No freeze speed effect but they should remove a shield instead.



    What do you think?
    Freeze weapons shoots pretty fast though, dont they?
    So 3 quick shots and a PPU is without shields? I think it would be a bit overpowered

    And there already is a way of removing shields as a non-ppu (nanites). They suck, I know. But they are still there

    Possibly they could be made into something similar to the nanites though. But ranged and not as useless lol.
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    Not to hijack the thread but...nanites are a bother. i don't know anyone who uses them even for pvp.

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    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arista Barret View Post
    Not to hijack the thread but...nanites are a bother. i don't know anyone who uses them even for pvp.
    Completely off-topic yes..
    I do agree though, but lets not make the thread a "nanites sucks" thread
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    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Obviously you wouldnt just change the effect right off the bat. I mean I would expect the shots to be slowed down a lot also. I mean like one per few seconds or something. Say a RoF of 20 per minute would be good?

    I am trying to think of a way that more people can strip each others shields and so not rely on ppu buffs so much. This way hopefully more people will be able to shoot each other without needing the ppu buffs.

    I think rare freezers should remove rare shields and store bought remove store bought shields. This would help the disadvantaged player who doesnt have a ppu stuffed up his ass every time he fights and ALSO make freezer guns useful.

    Call it a brain freeze for the ppu if you will!

    P.s yeah we have nannites and theyre shit. This thread is not about nannites! Put that somewhere else please.
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    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I think that freezer guns should be changed to be shield breakers.
    I think all freezers should break one shield - randomly ideally.
    not bad (not bad as in 'very interesting idea'). let me suggest different ammo (+ammo mods) for different shield types instead of a randomized effect.

    in general: imho we need more combat tools (besides plain damage output and defence obejects) to make the game more interesting.

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    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I think of it as brain freeze. I like Torg's idea of different ammo mods but then you would need to carry 3 different guns I guess. As long as they didnt weigh too much (compared to the spell variants) then this might well work. However knowing you are going to strip off the blue shield every time might just leave the other 2 up would just be the same as the ppu spells. I cannot decide if I like this idea (simplicity always appeals) or prefer the random shield.

    Either way its a great idea!
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    bool hero = true; Habit's Avatar
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    btw, why did the spirit mod for the snipers removed?

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    So you want an Anit-Buff for non Psi classes... wouldn't mess with the class balance again?
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    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    What if this would just be some kind of debuff?
    So that the shield is not removed, but weakened for meleeweapons for a short amount of time?

    Let's assume that a self cast shield gives 70% resist. The debuff (there should be some kind of effect visible one the enemy) should weaken the shield for 10 seconds down to 30%. But only if hit by a melee weapon. Other classes other than the melee tank should not be able to penetrate the shield.

    This would buff the melee-tank and not screw the entire PvP-Antibuff-Role-System. And there would still be some skill involved, as the melee tank has to hit the target with a freezer and then deal as much damage as possible in the 10 seconds (or whatever timeframe makes sense) he has as the shield is weakened.

    The PPU could see the debuff and react accordingly. Maybe there should be a possibility for the APU to debuff the debuff. Of course this would have to be thought through carefully.

  11. #11

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    Sounds like people want anti shield versions of mosquitos. For those who dont know, the Mosquito drone shoots 1 shot at a time and does about 1-3 damage. However its psi effect is that it puts a debuff on the target. After about 3-5 seconds have passed it removes psi healing spells on the target.
    This is a rather pointless drone it seems in most cases as the tick of a heal vs the dmg you could be doing with a particle nemisis. However if a PPU is trying to heal and buff say 3-4-5+ people then you can always put a bit more presure on them. But that is going off topic.
    Either way having a gun like this could be a good idea, or maybe expand it to a drone as well. But it would need to cause so little damage as to not be the weapon of choice for everyone to run around with as a main weapon to debuff and kill ppus with. But i think also be on the countdown system like the mosquito so the target has warning that it will be removing the buff in X number of seconds.
    If on a gun or melee weapon it would need to be rare. Probably not like the WoC weapons that take you 10mins-1hr to get and endlessly repeatable. This is because if you are going to run around with it you need a chance to lose the thing and it mean something. Though of course in Warzones you cant drop things so would become an arms race to see who gets it first and might end up with a very unbalanced game because or it.

    A wierd option if it happened to drones would be an anti-psi version of a kamakazi drone, that does 1 dmg (like the mosquito) but explodes putting timed debuffs on the aoe targets (maybe 10 seconds to give them a clear warning).

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    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Habit that has nothing to do with this thread please stay on topic.

    Drachenpaladin - yes this would mess with class balance. It is in the brainport for that very reason. To make PPU buffed players more easily killable by non-ppu buffed players.

    Yes I am aware that this negates the usefulness of ppus and weakens their role on the battlefield but in my mind currently the ppu is just about balanced in an op fight with his team but he/she overly impacts on small scale skirmishes and p2 fighting. Therefore having this weapon/item would give people who do not have that luxury a chance at fighting back. Lets not forget that whilst this person is attempting to debuff the enemy that enemy can still attack and do damage to the debuffer.

    No demonsword - the mosquito is shit. I do not want any version of that. I want to see freezer weapons implemented to have a role in the game that is not anything to do with runspeed. I am a fan of the runspeed cap thread that is going on but that is a discussion raging elsewhere.

    Nabbl - yes thank you it seems as though you understand where I am coming from. My initial thoughts were to make the melee shockers have a debuff of some sort but then I thought why should only melee get the benefit - why not freezers as a whole?

    If more people had access to debuffs then more people would think more about bringing along more damage dealers to a fight instead of more ppus (who are the only ones who can antibuff currently).


    In terms of actual effects I believe that the debuffing of a player should be a stationary cast weapon and use a large amount of stamina. It is not something I want to see spammed. I believe that having the rare version AND store bought versions available to do the same job effectively conforms with current in game items in terms of the store bought debuffs.
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    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    One question is how much this will 'force' players to carry a freezer weapon (not no mention low tech users), even if it were to be balanced in such a manner that the spirit mods were not.

    As to any mechanics:

    Permanent removal of a shield? A set % reduction of shield strength for x seconds? Pausing of any healing (nanite, psi or medikit) for x seconds? How do you make this effective against all classes?

  14. #14
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Nobody gets forced any more than anyone else. At present the PPU has the only antibuff. It gives people the option to be able to remove/weaken shields or just go for pounding them to break them.

    As for making it effective - well it does what it says on the tin. Effective against anyone with a shield on them. You make the choice. Do you opt to do damage or do you opt to remove the shield. Just the same as all other team based combat. If your fight is 1v1 and that guy is shielded do you run the risk of removing a shield or breaking it with firepower? If it is in a team does one guy go for the removal and the others get ready to pound the unbuffed target.

    How is the mechanic any different to bringing a ppu with antibuff?
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    No demonsword - the mosquito is shit. I do not want any version of that. I want to see freezer weapons implemented to have a role in the game that is not anything to do with runspeed. I am a fan of the runspeed cap thread that is going on but that is a discussion raging elsewhere.
    No i think you missed my point, though i did have a few. I did say a new drone might be nice, but i was just saying that what you seemed to want is an effect like what mossys have. So on hit it places a debuff on target what when it fades its effect is "removes X effect". In the case of mossy its an anti heal, but in the case of your example it is a freezer gun / melee shocker.

    But as i said it think it will be a hard job working out a balance if it has even say 1/4 of the dmg of a normal weapon. Having the ability to spam out antibuffs would be a powerful tool with the damage you could do. Espesially if for instance a fully buffed ppu is taking lets say 50 dmg per second while buffed from a normal gun, 250 dmg per second when unbuffed. Vs the debuffing weapon removing the shields instantly and doing 65 dmg per second vs unbuffed targets (what is of course anyone you hit as your weapon removes the shields). In general if you know the target will just instantly rebuff then your better off using the debuff weapon constantly.

    Equally debuffing costs a PPU a load of their psi & has the additional effect of while they are using anti protects or anti heals they arent casting new buffs or heals on other people during that time. So it means for the bonus of additional offense you are sacrificing a lot of defense.
    If you just weaponise it, the negative effect will likely just be slightly reduced damage for a while, but then a major increase in dmg right after.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    In terms of actual effects I believe that the debuffing of a player should be a stationary cast weapon and use a large amount of stamina. It is not something I want to see spammed. I believe that having the rare version AND store bought versions available to do the same job effectively conforms with current in game items in terms of the store bought debuffs.
    The problem i can see with this is that if the pool you are taking from is stamina then it can be spammed still as stam boosters reward you with an instant stam buff of whatever the boost gives, so you can just scoff them down like trail mix and instantly be back at 100% stam every second. Also what advantage would the rare version give over a shop version?
    Last edited by demonssword; 27-02-13 at 04:19.

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