1. #46
    T.G.M Second in Command phunqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gostly View Post
    I think then you might be surprised by how many players see a problem with the LE.
    I have no doubt a lot of people have problems with it. What I am hoping for is that we will find a solution which doesn't answer the cries for a complete removal and/or game altering changes, but that attacks the core problems. At least to start with, obviously if more changes are needed, then they are needed, but please do not just change the LE completely in one broad swoop.

    It's comes easy, I know. Being in that instance, the LEd person blocking the spawn, to just shout out that the LE should be removed already.
    Last edited by phunqe; 21-02-13 at 15:59.

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by phunqe View Post
    I have no doubt a lot of people have problems with it. What I am hoping for is that we will find a solution which doesn't answer the cries for a complete removal and/or game altering changes, but that attacks the core problems. At least to start with, obviously if more changes are needed, then they are needed, but please do not just change the LE completely in one broad swoop.

    It's comes easy, I know. Being in that instance, the LEd person blocking the spawn, to just shout out that the LE should be removed already.
    I can't speak for everyone but I don't think most of us want the LE removed from the game since it's not a very viable solution. However certain restrictions should be enforced upon LE users, people hear this and immediately think the worst though. Changes need to happen with the LE, whether in stages or one broad swoop. There are some people who keep their LE in simply because they have no reason to remove it. It's more beneficial to keep it in so that they can go to places like the chaos caves and actually get heals from a PPU since the majority of people leveling keep their LE in.

    Now this is just my opinion but those same people are missing out on the best pvp. PvP against people around your level is a lot of fun(currently this doesn't really exists since so many keep their LE's in, so the only people to fight against would be higher levels). This community has become fragile and catered to because of MMO's that came out after neocron with solo-friendly content but it shouldn't be that way. Neocron has never been a run-of-the-mill type of game, it has always stood out as something different and should always strive to be different. People come to neocron to get away from the ordinary MMO's of today. That's the reason I came back when I heard a volunteer dev team took over.

    We all love this game in different ways and want to see it become better now that a dev team that actually cares about the game is working on it. Bottom line is KK did a lot of things wrong and the current devs have a lot of work to do to fix what KK messed up so badly. The changes that I've seen so far are what keeps me hopeful they will try to bring back the glory of neocron.

  3. #48
    Bluenose Jodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirlias View Post
    Check the beginning of the conversation instead waste my time.
    There's a reply follow one of mine that say "without LE nc gonna lose 30%-50% of his population".

    Btw...
    ...let me understand, you join a MMOFPS based as i said on Op fights/Map conquest/trading between factions and pretent to play with no pvp? As forever passive spectator with total immunity from NC and his Environment? And pretend to not lose privileges nor to be an issue in the Game System?

    Really, it can't be commented.
    If it was just based on OP fights etc then they would automatically enforce LE removal after xx level. They don't and never have, so what does that tell you about what the game was originally based around?
    Incidentally, when I first played this game way back in NC 1, I removed the LE as soon as I got in game, bypassed any noob MC5 involvement and and got stuck in. Just about everyone did the same back then, hundreds of runners all without LE trying to level and play the game. There were actually clans set up with the, almost, sole purpose of ganking anyone of any level regardless of their gameplay activity. Being a noob in the aggie cellars getting attacked by high level runners most days of the week was not fun. When NC 2 came around it got worse, less safezones etc. A lot of people, including myself fled the game. Sometime later I came back with all my friends who had left and a couple of new ones. We all started from scratch with LE's and have enjoyed the game much more because of it.

    The only effects I have n the NC environment is there is one less cannon fodder running around and I provide services to other runners when they need FSM or a tradeskiller (regardless of their LE disposition).

    Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. - Basil Fawlty

  4. #49
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodo View Post
    If it was just based on OP fights etc then they would automatically enforce LE removal after xx level. They don't and never have, so what does that tell you about what the game was originally based around?
    No, really, they did.
    what does that say about what the game was originally based around?
    Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    you mean, like hundreds of players getting along pretty well with the current system vs 5 to 10 guys, who want to change it to their own likes? i can live with that.

    My clan alone, RSC, has more than 200 runners, so roughly 50 accounts, owned by roughly 30 players. All of these players agrees that some change with LE is wanted.

    Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
    Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.

    Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.

    And I am not counting German forums and other PVP clans. I would be interested to see the results of a poll held on the launcher page as to hoe many players wish to see LE rules changes.

  6. #51
    Bluenose Jodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dope View Post
    No, really, they did.

    Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.
    At what point was there automatic removal? NC 1 beta?

    Noob MC5 was in NC 1.

    Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. - Basil Fawlty

  7. #52
    Bluenose Jodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
    Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.

    Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.

    Lets not forget that (as a lot of people keep whining about) a great deal of the population are actually LE'd. As for just Torg and myself, you've clearly missed several threads of very similar discussion (why has this been allowed btw mods?) over the last week with a great deal of interaction and opinions from both sides.

    Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. - Basil Fawlty

  8. #53

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    Well my summary headcount only focussed the english part of the community, even though my clan has german players.

    If we estimate the same number, 40, for the German community, we're looking at 80 out of 300, which is 24% or roughly 1/4 players of the player base.

    My estimate is rough, and on the realisticly harsher side. I think on the real 1/3 player would like to see changes. (not removal)

  9. #54
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dope View Post
    No, really, they did.

    Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.

    Huh? What the fuck?

    There has never been forced LE removal that I know of and I started in Dec 02. We used to have LE XP penalties but these were removed around the middle of 2003. Also in late 2003/2004 MC5 was added.


    You can search the thread or the old patch notes. It said a mysterious installation has appeared in the wastes. On uranus at least nearly every english speaking runner on the server banded together to go check it out. I didnt bother as my toons were still too new and I wanted to crack on with levelling in the newly opened chaos caves.
    Last edited by William Antrim; 21-02-13 at 20:16.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  10. #55
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodo View Post
    At what point was there automatic removal? NC 1 beta?

    Noob MC5 was in NC 1.
    I would have to ask a mod to see if they could find out when my account was created the first time (if they even have that data) but I'd estimate it was a month or so before my forum account, and if I recall correctly it was week one of North American release (they called me at something like 3 am to verify my CC!) So, it was retail, but early retail when I made my first char. LE's automatically "fell out" when you dinged L10 or so. They also didn't work in various areas of the world. (There's that audio bit that says as much about "your safety is only guaranteed within the city limits." that you'll hear in the city now and then.)

    MC5 came way later, with the addition of the epics bit by bit. When I started there was no tutorial and you started out in your apartment, ready to rock. Also, if you chose TG, FA, BD or TS there was this dialog that popped up that said "Hey, fair warning, but you've chosen a faction that lives in a PvP enabled space, don't die too much, K?" and allowed you to back up and choose a different faction.
    Last edited by Dope; 21-02-13 at 20:12.

  11. #56
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    My clan alone, RSC, has more than 200 runners, so roughly 50 accounts, owned by roughly 30 players. All of these players agrees that some change with LE is wanted.

    Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
    Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.

    Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.

    And I am not counting German forums and other PVP clans. I would be interested to see the results of a poll held on the launcher page as to hoe many players wish to see LE rules changes.
    Nice mathethematics you are doing here

    If the pvp content is the base for success why did Neptune failed so miserably ?

    I believe that two things are really the base for success of the game:

    1) a good balanced mixture of pvp and non-pvp content in this very competitive game

    2) a maximum of choices the player could do to choose how he wants to play = maximúm number of people which are happy with it

    I can easily accept that you and who knows how much dozens of your mates are unhappy with the LE playstile (i guess your mates are complete unLE'd ?). But as long as you cannot make it clear to me WHY i should play without LE and take these wonderful pvp , so long i cannot see why i have to.

    Fact is that - atmospherical issues excepted - LE playstile does not affect the pvp and vice versa (exploits excepted).

    You want make pvp ? Feel free to do so !

    You do not want pvp ? ok, hold your LE.

    What the hell is your problem ? Not enough to shoot at ?

    Reed

  12. #57
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    If you still cant understand it Dr reed youre either blind to it completely or you just chose to ignore the valid and thoughtful posts made by those with a different opinion to your own.

    Everyone who doesn't like the LE (pretty much) has this opinion due to the behaviour of certain players in the game WHILST wearing the LE.

    They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.

    I cannot understand how you cannot get this or even mildly accept that it happens, plenty.

    You have once again fallen back on these old, tired beat up statements that various members of this forum have bandied around since Titan started up. There really is nothing new in your last 5 posts at least on the subject.

    People need to be held accountable for their actions and if that is at gun point then so be it.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  13. #58
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    If you still cant understand it Dr reed youre either blind to it completely or you just chose to ignore the valid and thoughtful posts made by those with a different opinion to your own.

    Everyone who doesn't like the LE (pretty much) has this opinion due to the behaviour of certain players in the game WHILST wearing the LE.

    They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.

    I cannot understand how you cannot get this or even mildly accept that it happens, plenty.

    You have once again fallen back on these old, tired beat up statements that various members of this forum have bandied around since Titan started up. There really is nothing new in your last 5 posts at least on the subject.

    People need to be held accountable for their actions and if that is at gun point then so be it.
    No, no you get me wrong, Sir.

    I can understand that some people are angry about that other players with LE could do this other way than they do.

    But again the question: whats the problem with this ? First, you could let them play their style (or do you fear that there are WOC discs could go out of stock due to overfarming ?) .

    Second: every player could do this also, one char with, one char without LE.

    Dont bother again and again what other player do all the time.

    Reed

  14. #59
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    You can understand why people are angry but you ask what the problem is?

    Which is it?

    The sarcasm is truly not needed and the rest of your post I am afraid I cannot understand. You are a very confusing person. Perhaps it is a language problem. I cannot see it being anything else other than that unless you are trying to keep the fires burning on this issue.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  15. #60
    Alive and still kickin'! Haggis.at's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.
    They can go anywhere they want - fine, whats the problem? So can you!
    They can shoot anything they want - wrong, they can't shoot you. So are you just mad because they can also hunt mobs and you can't kill them while they do so?`You don't happen to be one of the 2 idiots riding combat hovers and ganking leveling/farming players 'til kingdom come?
    They can spawn block - misuse of game mechanics - report to a GM. IF the cave is empty (like the final room at regants is cleared everytime).
    If it isn't empty because some players choose to rush through and just kill the Bossmob - wait until the cave is clear. Or invite them into the team and clear it with them. That way those LE's players will get more XP and you get a reset cave fast. Win/Win. Oh, sorry, I forgot, its easier to whine about that you can't kill them, my bad. My LE PE did even recycle ammo / medpacks for the non LEs out at Milbase Bunker because they invited me. We had lots of fun TOGETHER. At NC1 I had no problem getting my LE out - there were simply not THAT much triggerhappy morons out there those days... But when you can't even run throught Plaza 2 to your app without being ganked (and right in front of the copbots) then I wish I never removed the LE on 2 of my chars

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