1. #16

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    I'm not saiyng what people do or should do, but is hard to think PVE/RP/TRADE guys re like 50% of nc population

    I like the tradeskill, nc lore and much more, but also is true that new LE brings many problems.

    btw a gamemaster should tell us which is difficult: Set a location block for LE dudes or what else.

  2. #17
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Read this below and keep stating that the LE'd player is a problem for the game. Whether it's true or not, everbody has seen something this way, too. I had similar situation with another well known "friendly" clan.

    As a reward for such behaviour LE'd players should punished or have 50% of content/ world cutoff ?

    The impudence with what methods this is deduced is remarkable.

    As said before: let people choose their playstile. This will lead to maximal population and success of the game. Gank those who like it, dueling with those who like it and let other player go collecting/ farming.

    If somebody breach the rules of content report him.

    Reed



    Original from Faid from here:

    http://forum.neocron-game.com/showth...ke-ur-own-mind

    Because I was one of the LE'd people there Ghostly.

    Let me tell you what really happened.
    There were 3 of us there originally, APU Tank and PPU. we had just cleared the first room with the proto's in it. Clan RED shows up with 5 people, hacks our prototypes then tells us that it was now their cave and that we must leave. To witch I replied no, we are leveling here. Then they go off and just kill the other 4 prototypes in the other room. After they only killed the proto's they demand that we reset so they can just farm the prototypes. To witch I replied no we are leveling. So we continue to level killing the mobs gaining XP like any normal leveling team would do. We suggested they goto another cave because we were there first. They still demanded that we leave.

    Then Naim here, tells me that he has contacted his friend Hoder and that he will be here in a minute to presumably kick us out of the cave that we were leveling in. I said ok, I'd love to talk to Hoder about why a leveling team killing mobs would have to leave a cave simply because some other team wants to only kill proto's. Needless to say Hoder never showed up and we continued to level peacefully. When the entire level was clear we went to reset and low and behold 2 guys from Clan RED we stood AFK in the cave entrance Blocking the reset. Falk Keegan and Chucky.

    So the irony here is that it was actually the UnLE'd clan RED members who were blocking the cave reset. Whats even more funny is that we probably would have given them the cave if they werent such dueschbags to us when they first got there.

    Later that night we were out at MC5 and TGM showed up with a full team, they were civil and not dueschbags so we left so they could have the place to themselves. The LE isn't the problem in this game it's the dueschbag people, like Danae said, try to not be one.

  3. #18

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    I think some people are forgetting that this is a relatively new server and not everyone has come across with clans.
    There are old faces returning and brand new runners who will take longer to get a point they feel they can take their LE out.

    Trying to get rares while only playing a couple of hours here and there, along with parts for the "popular/good" weps being even harder to come by due to everyone wanting them.

  4. #19
    DRE Veteran Zefrian's Avatar
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    Arrow "The same procedure as in any other game, James!"

    it's quite interesting to see, that this very same discussion also appears on other games with pve/pvp elements: One side want's to overrule the other, and hates the style of playing the other had choosen.

    I remember the old Neocron:PVP-Server, which was set up by ReaKKtor on high demand by the community. It got a big rush on start, and then went dead very soon. That experiment failed horribly. The mass has spoken.

    Anyway: As we are discussing an alternative, i suggest a system like that one of an also 10 years old game. I'll transcribe it for Neocron:

    ----------------
    • There is no LE anymore.
    • Let all appartements and city buildings be savezones. You can't PvP there. Period.
    • If you leave an appartement/inner city building, you automatically consent to PvP.
    • Inner City Zones are watched by NCPD. You may take your weapon at any time and shot on anyone, but after you begin shooting, you WILL INEVITABLY BE EXECUTED by NCPD with Soullight loss.
    • The more away you are from the inner city, the longer it will take for NCPD, to catch you, but YOU WILL BE EXECUTED. No evade possible.
    • If you are in the outer Zone, only the entraces/exits are watched by NCPD. You may evade the execution there by getting away from the entrances/exits.
    • If you started PvP, you are flagged for - let's say - 2 Minutes after you last agressive action. Being flagged you can't change zone. -> No zone-whoring anymore. "Stand you man! You started war? Suck it up to the bitter end." ;-)
    • If you are outside the city, you are free do do, whatever you want. NCPD does not watch there. But the 2-minutes-flag still applies.
    • Sewers in City are also watched by NCPD-Drones according to their distance from the inner city; therefore the same rules apply there.
    • There are also high level sewers in the City.
    • The caves with the biggest provit promised are in the wastelands.
    • Very rare items can also only be found in the wastelands.
    ---------------

    1.) Do you like this system?
    2.) Do you recognize, from which game this systems is copied from? :-)

    And yes ... in the other game the hardcore PvPers als also whining about the people not leaving "the city", and "the bad bad restrictions preventing them from being 'free'". But it still works fine.

    Anyway:
    It does not matter, which game you take: Both sides have the right to choose their way of playing the game. The maintainer/owner of the game is just obliged to ensure, that no one of the sides abuses mechanics from one side to interfere the other side.
    Satzzeichen absichtlich wegzulassen ist gegenüber dem Leser eine grobe Unhöflichkeit, da es das Lesen des Textes massiv erschwert.

  5. #20
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    yes, Zefrian, eve has a pretty nice ruleset for dealing with consented/unconsrntrd PvP. we'd need to add clan-wars tho.

  6. #21
    DRE Veteran Zefrian's Avatar
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    @Torg: ;-)
    Satzzeichen absichtlich wegzulassen ist gegenüber dem Leser eine grobe Unhöflichkeit, da es das Lesen des Textes massiv erschwert.

  7. #22
    DRE Veteran Zefrian's Avatar
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    Well, if i remember right from one of the closed threads, there was a complaint about LEd runner blocking caves from being reset.

    As Non-LEd runner can't solve that problem by themselves, i suggest following changes, which do not interfere with the rights of the LEd runners:

    • If your character does not do an offensive action within 10 Minutes, it will be warped out of cave. (no afk-blocking)
    • If a cave hasn't been reset for over 2 hours, alls runners in that cave are warped out and cave will be reset.


    Reason:
    If you are playing the game, you do actions. In a cave there are offensive action expected. And if a cave has not been cleared within 2 hours, the runners are to weak to get it cleared. Joined the cave too late? No whine ... you will get a fresh cave.

    What about that?
    Satzzeichen absichtlich wegzulassen ist gegenüber dem Leser eine grobe Unhöflichkeit, da es das Lesen des Textes massiv erschwert.

  8. #23

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    ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arista Barret View Post
    ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.

    As GM Tharos
    As already stated for caves:

    If an LE'd runner is blocking a cave from being reset by just "standing in a corner and doing nothing for a 'long time'", this is not allowed and should be reported by an ingame ticket.

    But as long as the LE'd runner is active killing Mobs (in your words: "leveling"), he is allowed to do so.

    It does not matter, it the "boss mob" is already wiped out, or not, as long as there are other mobs, which give some kind of reward like experience points.

  10. #25
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arista Barret View Post
    ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.
    I do not want to become personally but after reading the last 4 dozen posts of you i would like to state that i cannot remember a similar case or time in which one poisoned the (difficult) relationship between pvp and pve or LE oriented players in that amount you do here.

    Not good, Sir.

    Reed

  11. #26

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    LE runners and LE inspired exploits and entitlements have poisoned the relationships. I am not the topic of this thread.

  12. #27
    für einen freien Geist Deus Ex Machina's Avatar
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    1) I don't like the system. Although never was relevant in the way that it would kill me, the inevitability of the kill was always something of that system that I hated. And in Neocron I don't think there are even ways where that solution is bringing any positive for the attacker beyond griefing, so you could ban PvP at all inside the city and against that I would be much more. Its the same with the many mechanisms in other MMORPGS where there are villages and so on there are ridiculus overpowered NPCs that can kill everything with one look. Neocron if one of the last place for refugees that don't like that.
    I just have to think back at the event in Viarosso 2 last time, with the Biotechs and Tangents shooting each other. The event would not be justified really, since they should have all be executed immediatly. And any Runner that helped and placed one wrong shot, which happens in the heat, would have been killed too.
    With that in place the most interestin encounters I had in NC wouldn't have happened. Nearly none of them I think.
    2) Ye I recognized it, the "no chance to escape" mechanism is a dead give away to everyone that knows the game.
    I may not agree
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    but I'll defend to the death
    your right to say it!
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  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arista Barret View Post
    LE runners and LE inspired exploits and entitlements have poisoned the relationships. I am not the topic of this thread.
    If ya dont like it you can always leave...

    Either way some classes / specs require a good level of gear to actually be pvp viable. Some of which actually seem to need you to have PPR / MC5 / Rare head imp + 1 other just to get enough to start. So as someone said dont let LE'd players have rare parts. That would be nuts as you would have to farm up parts or cash on a character to support any alts you have or any new players to the game.
    MC5, WoC & DOY lv3 tunnel TBH are kinda good ideas to have as zones where it is fair game for anyone to be attacked in because of the loot from there could or maybe should be considered more special than normal.

    Part of the trouble with the idea is coding it would be a nightmare probably. Also as others have said a large number of people love to PVE and only want to PVE and dont mind losing a head chip.
    I think a better solution could be to give people without LE in a bigger reward, so maybe in MC5 players can pick up a quest that LE'd players cant. On killing X number of base commanders (say 30) they are rewarded with an additional box of stuff that can contain X number of rareparts (say 10) and 1-2 mc5 parts / ultimas / illy slot enhancers or whatever. But can only get the quest once every 3 days or week or something to limit it.
    This will reward those who do take out there LE with a bonus without giving such a heavy penalty as to make them all cry.
    OR maybe have it that LE'd players can take the mission but with less freqency that non LE'd

  14. #29
    Alive and still kickin'! Haggis.at's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirlias View Post
    cause many people play nc cause his fabulous pve.
    Dropout, pls.
    I do - got a problem with that?

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirlias View Post
    LE was born to prevent pking on low lvl, and still that's what's worth for.
    Ready to join the real neocron? Remove LE and continue your character.

    You could have a point if
    -Entire account with or without LE
    -No multiple accounts permitted

    But that's not our situation.

    Why a low lvl should not be able to see the entire world and die by his own while trying to discovery ( or kill ) anything?
    It brings no problems ( cause XP cap and Impossibility to get drops ).

    LE actually is a problem ( also for finding a party, cause everybody has LE on ), but removing zones from LE chars is not the answer.

    i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
    I would like to hear more from this guy.

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