PPU-Team-XP - Idea

[DeathCultLegion]

Team-XP:
hi there,
Background story:

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Lately i played my PSI-Monk as PPU and noticed the huge XP-difference between APU leveling and helping others as a PPU and try to get XP.
On the one hand, as an APU I get my team-XP and my own XP - pretty much normal-level speed and its fine and works as intended. But on the other hand, as a PPU, I just get the Team XP - so in fact, i do have a serious disadvantage, even if i help my teammates. I think the XP Distribution in this Case is very uneven and unfair.

To adjust that issue (imo), something came on my mind and i would like to present it to other minds to test it:
To avoid abuse and unfair advantages we cannot provide the PPU with a XP-Boost for a single Action (cast a Holy-Heal and get XP) it would lead to PPUs that cast group-heals on Plaza 1 and get XP for doing nothing effective.

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Idea:
How about we implement a system that provides the PPU with a passive team-XP-Boost only, if he is in a Team and have fulfilled certain-Skill Combinations?
As an Example:
I thought of a Team-XP-Bonus for a PPU between 1% to 60%. The PPU will get his fair amount of XP, but not as good XP, like a DMG-Dealer.

so in simple words and short description of my Idea:
If Passive-PSI-Use is below <=100 -> Team-XP 100%
If Passive-PSI-Use is over >=101 -> Team XP 102%
If Passive-PSI-Use is over >=102 -> Team XP 104%
---Breakpoint with declining effect---
If Passive-PSI-Use is over >=130 -> Team XP 150%
If Passive-PSI-Use is over >=131 -> Team XP 151%
…
If Passive-PSI-Use is over >=150 -> Team XP 180%
Team-XP-Boost is capped at 150PPU Base-Skill with a capped 180% Team-XP

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Anti-Abuse/Anti-Exploit:
So in a worst-case scenario a PPU who tries to abuse this will spend every Point on PPU - 553 on PPU will provide an TEAM-XP boost up to 180% with hardcap even if the PPU exceeds 150 base PPU.
To avoid, that a PPU will get more XP than an APU in a TEAM with doing no XP, we will let the XP-boost cut off at 180% and you will need skill 130 PPU to reach 160% TeamXP.
As a conclusion the biggest XP Bonus a PPU can get will be 100% +80% Team-XP. But he will be very much useless to his team and no one with an intact mind will let him stay in the team, if he can’t contribute to it or heal/shield his Team.
Moreover we could implement another barrier to prevent hybrid combinations abusing the PPU-TeamXP-Boost with this:
If APU is >=0 -> no additional Team-XP even if you have 101 PPU Base

As an Example, here is a similar PPU-PSI-Skillset that would benefit the most out of this system:
130PPU Base
99 Focus Base
and 53 PSI-Power Base
This would provide my PPU with a good baseskill set and give me an Team-XP Bonus of 60%.

That means:
A PPU will get a reward for skilling PPU (sadly not helping people as we cannot implement it due to game-mechanics) in a Team - he will still get less XP than an active APU/Runner who gets his 100% Team-XP and his 100% XP of the DMG he has done. But it will get more attractive to play a PPU and get rewarded for it as well as other players for killing stuff.

i encourage everybody to comment, like or criticize, correct, expand, shorten or totally destroy my idea with arguments – No Harm ment

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More than 10 years of Neocron have past and I am still into it

[Cannings]

IMO xp levelling speeds are fine, I levelled purely as ppu from 30 base psi to 100 and it took me 6 days total, there is no problem there.

[DeathCultLegion]

IMO xp levelling speeds are fine, I levelled purely as ppu from 30 base psi to 100 and it took me 6 days total, there is no problem there.

Thats a good thing that you reached it so quick, the question is in how many ingamehours you needed for 100PSI and where do you got 260Mil PSI-XP in a Team

[Cannings]

I haven't gone for WoC in all honesty it doesn't really interest me that much, i'm at about 21mil overcap just from op fights and running around but i'm not really watching it. As for played time, I work during the week till 6 and put probably two decent weekends worth of playtime, say 7 hours sat 7 hours sun, 2 hours week days so 10 there and 7 hours the next sat and sun so 38 hours total?

[DeathCultLegion]

my experience looks very grave and different from yours - i am trying to level with my friends in the chaos cave (CR 50 - 1 Tank and 1 Droner) and most of the time we are having Lieutenant runs, but the PPU XP is just low. If my tank gets 1 STR Level from 95-96 i would only get 1/6 of my PSI 93.
I do understand that excessive playin can compensate this issue and running around doing OP-Fights (idk if PvP gets you any PSI-XP - i doubt its enough for serious leveling).

I never even thought about leveling as PPU - tried it and the teamxp was nearly next to nothing compared to a solid APU-Leveling style in a Team.

[Cannings]

Are you keeping your CR in line with theirs, it has to be within 10 to get full xp?

[DeathCultLegion]

yes, i am at CR 51 and theirs is around 55

nevermind - i am capped in a bit but with my PPU-dependent Team-XP-Boost every PPU should level nearly 3/4 like a normal DMG-Dealer. So we should see more low-level-PPUs

It was just an idea of improving equality with incoming XP by delivering important jobs ingame.
A Conster gets XP
A Resser gets XP
A Implanter gets XP
nearly every Skill gets XP - except healing others

you realize how unfair and unrewarding this system is? i think its not a big goal to be a PPU if its not rewarded correctly by the game

[lindian]

I actually dont get what the problem is? Yes I got a ppu with psi 100 and I only carried a pistol for about 1 (psi 10 or so) before I lomed it. I put out my LE with rank 10/10 and oh my god i got through the whole shit (started the ppu in october 2012 but didnt really play him that much). Just get yourself a group. Go MB, Storage, Caves, Reagent and soon you are psi 100.

Yes it is harsh to lvl a ppu, but it is the most important class out there. Go with the flow. Learn it the hard way. That's the way of NC

[Arista Barret]

Didn't they fix ppus recently in a patch? I don't play monks so not much to say. I wanted to agree that ppu is the hardest class to play. It takes complete game knowledge to be a great ppu.

[William Antrim]

Give the ppu the same xp as the highest xp earner in the team. Sorted. He gets the same reward in a big team or a small one.

[DeathCultLegion]

@William Antrim:

Hmm if we take your idea i would take 1 AoE-Tank/APU and 7 other Monks with PPU. Result would be - the Tank gets all the DMG-XP and all the 7 Monks get the same Amount of XP for doing nothing but staying in Team. So this model is quite exploiteable in my opinion and not a serious option.

so if i understood everyone here correctly, your opinions are like: "Yeah learn PPU the hard way - i don't have a problems with leveling four times more with it"
Don't underestimate my passion to NC- my Monk is PSI 95 and i am not sad about that its hard (so the class is rarely played) but i am talking about equally receiving XP for the time you invest in your character.

My Point is: Playing a PPU and helping other players isn't bound to a logical reward - its penalized by the fact, that a PPU isn't doing any direct DMG and doesnt recieve XP the normal way. So its only logical to invent a System that equalizes this, until the XP is nearly the same amount another active-DMG-Team-Member receives.

This would only mean one thing: A PPU levels nearly as fast as any other class - so its more likely a person would play it even with 4/5 ranks. That would mean there more PPUs availeble in every Rank-Combination (10/10,20/20 and so on) furthermore it would mean the Players would learn the PPU the best way (know your spells from the Bottom)
@lindian: It shows passion to play a PPU since 10/10 but is it wise? i think not - seems a bit dumb to me, till i can level much more quickly as an APU. I started my Monk as APU and it nearly leveled as fast as an AoE-Tank (Regant and so on) but as a PPU i would've needed much more time. My Idea tries to address this problem and make this class much more attractive to players that don't have time to level four times more than the typical Tank.
Its just bad game mechanics/game play that a class is entirely build without DMG and doesnt recieves a bonus for helping other players.

[William Antrim]

Ok to fix that issue. Give the ppu the same xp as the highest DD and then split it up amongst every PPU in the team. Simple.


Alternatively as I said many years ago. Give the PPU xp for damage healed from mobs on players. Of course if no damage is healed then no xp is given but this is the only other thing I can think of.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Its hard to think of other things than heal that could be made to give XP, but one that would come to my mind is the following (yes it also is exploitable I guess):
Give the PPU extra XP based on the amount of Damage he helps evade:
-) The amount he blocks with Shields
-) Stacks of Damage he clears away

Also maybe he could get extra XP based on the extra damage done when he damageboosts some Mob

But I guess its hard to code that right for little gain.

[DeathCultLegion]

@William Antrim: I think there is no way in the engine to devide PvE-DMG from PvP-DMG, but i dont know. Even this would be exploitable by putting a teammate in direct fire and keep healing him. It would not be necessary to kill anything - wrong aproach to the main problem i think.
We should think of a system that cant be exploited.
your First idea extended with the share is very good. Thats similar to my aproach, but mines in a more calculating manner (depending on how much PPU you have)
@DeusExMachina:
The Damageboost thing is a quite interesting idea - but how would this be calculated - the PPU doesn't do the DMG - he decreases the resistance of the MOB against a DMG overall.
Would be interesting to hear from a DEV how the Bonus-DMG of Damageboosters are calculated and if they could implent a system like you suggested.

Keep this Thread rolling maybe we find a good solution and some DEVs think about it, after the major-Bugs are fixed.