Red soul light characters

[Arista Barret]

If I attack a green target and he beats me up....He loses his SL. If i do it again...he better run away. Now i have ruined his SL and ruined his fun in game.
If I attack a nub...he has no real SL for sure...Easy kill and no real penalties. I must do this.
If I go to neg 100 SL there is no appropriate way to get it back....So i will stay neg 100 forever and then use Kami drones to fight. I can target anyone i like and also maybe get some kills in P1.

These Suggestions are why Rpers and Non LE who speak about unconsented pvp should be commenting on other matters. If you have no working knowlegde on the subjects at hand, Do not waste our time discussing ideas that do not address the problems, are not well thought out, does not allow for PvP to be the main concern on a PvP issue. To hell with the roleplay until we figure out how to fix ruined pvp. We can work the RP into it after the game is fixed.

[Ivan Eres]

I guess the main question about it all is: Is Neocron a PvP game ?

If so, then its design should be adjusted to reach this goal most efficiently.

I liked the following quotes regarding this matter so far:

"Runners were rewarded for killing enemies in Pepper Park, but couldn't even draw a weapon in parts of plaza and VR. The LE didn't work in the OZ or the wasteland, and there were no penalties in those "completely wild" areas for killing enemies."

"I'd love to see zones reverted to the way things were. Plaza/VR safezones, no copbots in PP, faction HQs not being safezones."

"Back in NC1 clans were created for people who didn't really want to pvp. They were tradeskillers and if they wanted an OP they would form alliances with other clans (that did like to pvp) or pay a clan to help them take OPs."

"I remember sitting around UN-LE'd in pepper park, because there was nearly no context-free PvP going on that time."

"The "non-PvP gameplay" was that of a tradeskiller who stayed in the safe zones and made their money by doing non-PvP things in non-PvP areas.[...]"Tradeskillers shouldn't go to primarily PvP spots."

"Most of the "open world PVP" nowadays consist of being assaulted while hunting/leveling by someone already up to spec"

However, I really don't want to take the game away from the people that enjoy it in a peaceful way, so it's a very difficult subject.

I really don't see a solution at the moment, other than having a PvE server and a PvP server where above changes could be made. Since we would be decimating the population either way it could be worth a try anyway to change the game to what the vision was from the start.

Whatever happens I'd really like people to calm down and not react too emotional about all this. That's not helping anybody and most important it's also not helping the game to get better.

Regards

[William Antrim]

These Suggestions are why Rpers and Non LE who speak about unconsented pvp should be commenting on other matters.

This is the reason most people here are ignoring you. The same as the people who ignore you in game. They are tired of your opinions being touted as fact. You cannot form the basis of a good discussion by berating ideas you do not agree with and flaming the people who made them. You go from being a debater to a mass-debater then (the clue is not in the spelling).

If you want to get down off this moral crusade youre on then you need to learn a thing or two about etiquette. The guns stay in game but on the forum you need a modicum more civility.

[Arista Barret]

Ivan eres...pvp is the endgame for pvpers. our end gAme experience has been trampled on for years. i seek a balance that builds pvp and also allows pve players to have their endgAme also.

[Arista Barret]

William apron.... i have already invited your clan to our comms. You are welcome to speak to me directly.

[DR REED]

If I attack a green target and he beats me up....He loses his SL. If i do it again...he better run away. Now i have ruined his SL and ruined his fun in game.
If I attack a nub...he has no real SL for sure...Easy kill and no real penalties. I must do this.
If I go to neg 100 SL there is no appropriate way to get it back....So i will stay neg 100 forever and then use Kami drones to fight. I can target anyone i like and also maybe get some kills in P1.

These Suggestions are why Rpers and Non LE who speak about unconsented pvp should be commenting on other matters. If you have no working knowlegde on the subjects at hand, Do not waste our time discussing ideas that do not address the problems, are not well thought out, does not allow for PvP to be the main concern on a PvP issue. To hell with the roleplay until we figure out how to fix ruined pvp. We can work the RP into it after the game is fixed.

With respect to William Antrims post before i try to stay short and precisely:

If you remove / lower near zero a SL/criminlas watch system then a open pvp game like Neocron would end as a very dumb gank-fest-shooter. And then Neocron would not be a dark age/ cyberpunk game, it would be very unrealistic anarchy simulation. In a world like yours in which everybody could kill everybody without penalties 95% were dead after some time, streets are empty and the victorious guys would soon die because of lack of dentists, TV and boredom

Nearly every MMO with a certain content of pvp does have a morale/ crimininal watch system and rules for this.

I am not sure whether you mean all this serious ?^^

Reed

[Kame]

Plz delete this post

[William Antrim]

I have no need to speak to you directly about any issue whatsoever. If I did I know where to find you. I am merely giving you some advice on how your posts are coming across. If you truly want to fix some of these aspects of the game then you could probably do with a better way of wording things sometimes.

[Arista Barret]

Your points are valid. penalties are too harsh and the soul light system is broken. i do agree with harsh penalties but the penalties right now have destroyed a valid pvp role.

[Arista Barret]

I have no need to speak to you directly about any issue whatsoever. If I did I know where to find you. I am merely giving you some advice on how your posts are coming across. If you truly want to fix some of these aspects of the game then you could probably do with a better way of wording things sometimes.

Yes i do agree with you. I am trying to find men who will speak for pvp. most of the guys who can are simply not using the forums.

[William Antrim]

If they made a system where SL could be gained as easily as it was lost I would be much happier. SL should determine if cops shoot you and faction symapthy should determine if faction guards shoot you.

this would allow for more dynamic politics and allow runners to carry out their daily lives (acting out their clan wars etc) with a degree more realism.

The f6 menu in my opinion should be there as a guideline on who you "SHOULD" be fighting with. However if on occasion people do have gripes with other members of allied and neutral factions then these transgressions should be punished by the faction NOT the police necessarily.

Taking steps towards this kind of system would be more favourable in my opinion. It more accurately reflects the situation on the ground.

People should be able to gain and lose faction sympathy freely also by killing enemy runners. Killing allies should be harshly punishable and have the deterrent of having your own faction guards attack you with negative faction sympathy. This would stop some of the problems in game currently.

Players should also be allowed to be thrown out of their faction. This should put them on the most wanted list as criminals (because they will have done something bad to get thrown out) and THEN they should have the harshest penalties in the world visited upon them until they find themselves a faction once more.

They should have the ability to then find a faction that suits them and enables them to pursue whatever vengeance caused them to fall foul of the law in the first place in this way. It would have the most dynamic RP system and create a truly back-stabbing, double-crossing, post-apocalyptic cyberpunk world that I have come to know and love. The mega-corporations control the streets, everyone who reads Cyberpunk novels knows that. The Government lies, cheats and steals its way through the stories just to retain control just like any other hierarchical society. This is what we want for our game I think.

I could bang on about my dreams and ideals for this sort of thing all day but I doubt that currently anyone on the dev staff has the time or inclination to look at the SL system when they have far more pressing matters to attend to. It would require a huge amount of programming and testing and one I doubt they have the capability of working with the current engine.

The minor issues like reverting the game to PP1 pvp and removing copbots from some areas are all well and good but they provide small compensation to a larger issue.

For now they would be well received by many of us I think but flaming others for disagreeing is just not cool. These are my thoughts on the whole thing.

[Arista Barret]

I hear you man. I like your vision of the game. Answer a question for me though....Unbreakable is a smaller tsu clan basically out get us banned and grief us. We are the largest Tsu clan in game. They attack us on sight and 90% of the time we win. Myself and half the clan had to spend days sitting afk because we cannot afford to drop our weapons and have our clan disgraced. Would your vision of the game be able to allow us to defend our honor? Would it allow us to kill our enemies on sight? I wont ramble on as long as you take time to think of my obvious response to failed reasoning.

Oh yeah....also take into account that we never have high SL and the enemy does.

[alehound]

Well, we ignore "someone" in game, so "someone" comes here to spew his anti le diatribe. Perhaps "someone" should go play minecraft...

[Jodo]

Well, we ignore "someone" in game, so "someone" comes here to spew his anti le diatribe. Perhaps "someone" should go play minecraft...

lol That's taking some advice very literally.

[Ivan Eres]

Would your vision of the game be able to allow us to defend our honor? Would it allow us to kill our enemies on sight?[..]Oh yeah....also take into account that we never have high SL and the enemy does.

Self defense must not be punished, ever. If you defend yourself from an attack of an ally you should not lose any SL.

However, the implementation of this could prove difficult.