Red soul light characters

[Cannings]

Once again another non constructive useless whine post, why are you still posting.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Carebears and roleplayers have ruined pvp. all good pvp ideas are shot down by people who don't even primarily pvp. to hell with carebears being involved in pvp discussion. let the devs decide whAt changes to make for pvp based in the pvp players. let the devs decide what to do with pve separately from pvp. pvpers can not get any improvements done as it stands.

As a Roleplayer, I would like to thank you.
Thanks for letting me know that I ruined your day, week or whatever. It fills me with so much pleasure that I know that now, i can't even tell you how nice it was of you to let all of us roleplayers know this.

P.S. A bit to think about: Maybe there are some people out there that don't want to PvP, because the people that should be their friends shoot at them all the time and then are not hard enough to bear the cross of Red SL, sitting around in safezones to get better again, or anything similar.
You behave shitty, you bear the consequences. Anything else is carebearish.

[Kame]

Will repost my constructive ideas, mainly because the thread is gettin hijacked by some poster (cannings) on a personnal crusade against another poster. I really feel what I want to convey is lost in all the bullshit that cannings sprouts against Arista simply because he doesn't like him. Nidhog man I'm looking in your direction right now.


Back on topic :

SL needs to be looked at, as the winner of an allied/allied or allied/neutral fight gets penalized by losing SL/Symps, and frankly being penalized for winning is wrong.

This system, penalizing the winning runner, is bullshit. It doesnt do any good to any of the parties involved and promotes exploiting itself.

I think the solution to this can come in many forms :

- Working Clan Wars
- Reworked SL/Symp mechanics
- Dynamic Faction Alliances


Working Clan Wars :

I think even the original intended design of this could help. Simply allowing Clans to wage war with enemy clans that are Neutral or Allied with no SL loss.


Reworked SL/Symp with something as :

- SL loss only for killing runners X amount of ranks below you, in all zones
- Symps gain/penalties in all zones based on faction


Dynamic Faction Alliances :

Basically, based on Average Faction Sympathy over all runners within a Faction, and also perhaps based on Faction Representative, a Faction could switch from Ally, Neutral or Enemy to another faction.

Now I understand this could prove the hardest to implement, but could potentially provide additional immersive elements.

Perhaps even future, RP based events could be scripted according to current faction relations...

[Cannings]

I don't even know him, a response to his post isn't unwarranted nor is it helped by your attacking of me which apparently is okay in your rules.

As for your post the core of the game is based on the lore, allied factions should work together and should not be fighting, obviously this become problematic when only a few clans are full active limiting the amount of different factions you can fight. That said I still think you should be punished for skirmishes in the city especially if they are between neutral or friendly runners no matter if you have just had a fight over an op with them.

You're not penalising people for winning you're penalising them for betraying their alliances with their faction.

The main problem I see with clan wars is that what is to stop every clan adding every clan and just avoiding SL?

SL reworks, again you focussing on SL only protecting lower leveled runners when in reality what its meant to do is protect people you would hope to be allied with. Say as a new runner that is full levelled running through P2 or PP and see's a friendly runner he should not have to fear that he's going to get shot in the back as he runs through he should be able to know he is safe because the other runner would take serious punishment for killing him and that's how it should be!

I like the idea of dynamic faction alliances i'm just not sure how it would work in the game, how ever a rework of the allied and enemy factions might be an idea of which this is updated and changed reguarly as factions betray each other and things.

[Kame]

As far as faction goes, the way I see things is that WE, the runners, ARE the faction.

Also, the limited numbers of clans available for OP fight at a given time is what is usually the most determining factor in who a clan chooses to fight. The faction is probably the least determining factor.


I think I speak for everyone when I state that WE, OP waring clans, want to PVP, and usually the clan-vs-clan PVP goes farther than the OP fight zones, all the way to P2 and eventually OOC.

I would appreciate if the Dev took some time to consider this so we can have clan-clan PVP without having to deal with the stupid SL system.

It's already hard as it is to find a clan with enough online runners to OP fight, let us have clan-vs-clan PVP outside of OP zones.

Clan-vs-clan PVP should be rewarded, not penalized, no matter the place in-game.

[Dropout]

You're not penalising people for winning you're penalising them for betraying their alliances with their faction.

And how about those who are getting attacked by an "allied", and kills the attacker? How is it fair to loose SL for defending yourself?

[Kame]

And how about those who are getting attacked by an "allied", and kills the attacker? How is it fair to loose SL for defending yourself?

It's not fair at all, no matter which angle you look from. This is absolutey one of the problems that the PVP community sees with the current SL system.

On a RP sidenote, look at the Mafia for instance. It is constanty waging war against itself, prominent families wanting to take control or specific areas, and so on.
Same with the Biker Gangs, or the Street Gangs as well.

So all in all, I think it's not only valid for clans within same faction to be at war, it's also very realistic.

In a RP sense, our faction should have no say about the quest for dominance between clans from same faction.

Actually most of the RP arguments against SL rules changes are in my opinion dumbfounded.

[Jodo]

It's not fair at all, no matter which angle you look from. This is absolutey one of the problems that the PVP community sees with the current SL system.

On a RP sidenote, look at the Mafia for instance. It is constanty waging war against itself, prominent families wanting to take control or specific areas, and so on.
Same with the Biker Gangs, or the Street Gangs as well.

So all in all, I think it's not only valid for clans within same faction to be at war, it's also very realistic.

In a RP sense, our faction should have no say about the quest for dominance between clans from same faction.

Actually most of the RP arguments against SL rules changes are in my opinion dumbfounded.

The local authority will still seek maximum prosecution, despite how many criminal scumbags someone wipes off the streets.

[Kame]

Were talking about faction-issued punishment for killing same faction runner.

In-game, the SL loss to a Tsunami or Black Dragon runner for killing a same-faction peer has nothing to do with "local authorities".

Your point would be valuable if the SL loss was issued by Cityadmin for simply killing a runner, but it is not. If it would, you would lose SL for killing just about any faction runners, but such is not the case.

I have yet to see a well thought-out argumentation proving that the SL system isnt as broken as we prove it is.


I think RP shoul adapt to game mechanics, instead of being defined by it.

[Jodo]

You compared it to real world dynamics, I just followed it to the logical conclusion.

[Arista Barret]

Very well spoken Kami. if you take a minute to analyse the implications of the soul light system. it quickly falls apart and the truth is unfolded.

[Cannings]

It's not fair at all, no matter which angle you look from. This is absolutey one of the problems that the PVP community sees with the current SL system.

On a RP sidenote, look at the Mafia for instance. It is constanty waging war against itself, prominent families wanting to take control or specific areas, and so on.
Same with the Biker Gangs, or the Street Gangs as well.

So all in all, I think it's not only valid for clans within same faction to be at war, it's also very realistic.

In a RP sense, our faction should have no say about the quest for dominance between clans from same faction.

Actually most of the RP arguments against SL rules changes are in my opinion dumbfounded.

lol I liked the fact about defending yourself against a allied runner and tbh yes I can see where it falls over but that doesn't debase the entire SL system.

But then you went into your mafia point and I lost you again, so you're comparing neocron factions to one organisation which fight in house to seize power and that is like neocron how? Neocron is more like countries they have allies, in the majority (with a few exceptions) stick together through thick and thin.

Also i'm sorry but you say you don't see a valid arguement for the SL system yet you have yet to provide one outside of defending yourself (which someone else provided) as to the negatives to it, apart from you personally losing SL when you "win" a fight.

[William Antrim]

Split it down the middle in my opinion.

Negative faction sympathy AND neutral/enemy faction and the guards attack you.

Allied faction they warn you first and then attack you.

Own faction does not attack you.

Red SL - Copbots attack you on sight like NC1 copbots used to. Not the carebear ones today.

If you kill someone you get sympathy in your faction if they are enemy to you. If they are neutral you gain nothing. If they are allied you take a faction hit with their faction standing.

Gaining SL should be done automatically and slowly past -50 up to +10. After that it should be missions. -99 to -50 should be regained by killing enemy runners or people with shit soullight themselves.

This way if you had bad SL and your opponent did too (due to a clan war of some kind) then you would stand a chance of getting some reward eventually for killing them even though initially you would still be branded a murderer (as you committed a crime technically).

It would also allow the "RED SL" guys to work their SL off in their own HQ if their own guards didnt attack them.

[Arista Barret]

The penalties are too harsh. in protest there will be a New droner clan with all neg 100 sl. once again le and carebears will not be affected. Pvp rules and systems should not be centered around le and carebear entitlements. get ready for Kami drones in p2 and op wars. hopefully the pvpers will grow tired of being told how to play by non pvperz.

[Torg]

i dont think this mmo is ever going to be CS or UT on a bigger map. any attempts to remove the RP part are futile.