[T#181] Testserver Patch Discussion

[da_fu$e]

LE carebare QQ...i like the patch!


EDIT: Titan need speedcap!

[gstyle40]

I'm sure i'm not the only one but I like the idea that has been put in by the dev's there should be an element of risk for all players in this world, okay you want to keep your LE in and be safe fair enough but if you want to go into this raw unsafe world you have to make considerations, like the fact you may lose your vehicle.

u made some nice statements in your post, but i wanted to speak on this part a lil bit

the whole idea of the le is to keep u safe from other players. safe from players yes, safe from the environment? not at all. there is always the chance u can die from the environment, but if im le'd i shouldnt have to worry about other players otherwise get rid of the le all together its now useless lol

when is the last time u actually went out in a rhino firemobbing? because there is a great chance u will loose your rhino everytime w/o having to worry about griefers. a grim persy will kill your rhino so fast it will make your head spin and forget about the invisible damage that happens lol. i cant tell u how many times i had to have the gunner jump out because the rhino is taking too much damage so i can rep. and yes im passionate about this because this is all i do in nc. not once have i ever blocked someones loot. i go places where most people dont go and level alone. that much wont change but now i cant even drive thru places like cycrow (which i usually dont anyways) because every un le'd person in those greifer clans will just shoot to see it blow up then laugh at u on ooc. but i digress.....now im done lol

[Gunshifty]

How about this, make it the way it was before it got bugged on Titan. LE'd people can't shoot anyone. Un-LE'd people can only shoot other Un-LE'd people/vehicles. I don't understand why this is so hard of a concept to understand. Unless the Devs can't figure out how to get it back to this point, in which case I can see why they're trying to put a positive spin on this new development. So I guess I'll hop on the TS and test out how best to blowup LE'd peoples vehicles while they can't even shoot me back...

This is what I vote for. To me, this makes the most logical sense.

If you would like it nicely laid out, this is what I think:

-Having an LE in makes it so that you cannot shoot anyone whether it's an LE'd player or Non-LE'd player (this same exact thing applies to vehicles). Note: This is how the game is currently slated, Any person with an LE in their head can not deal any damage to those who are LE'd and Non-LE'd.
-Having NO LE in makes it so that you can shoot only Non-LE'd players, like it is currently in PvP guidelines (this same exact thing applies to vehicles).

To clarify: the law enforcer protects the runner himself (including his belongings, i mean why should someone who PvE's lose his vehicle to someone who indicates they wanted to PvP- since they removed their LE)! And it also makes sure the runner obeys the law. Which means having no LE in does not protect you from anything (the basic concept of Law Enforcer being taken out means you are essentially "law-less" or for humorous terms: lawless). It is as simple as that.

[Cannings]

u made some nice statements in your post, but i wanted to speak on this part a lil bit

the whole idea of the le is to keep u safe from other players. safe from players yes, safe from the environment? not at all. there is always the chance u can die from the environment, but if im le'd i shouldnt have to worry about other players otherwise get rid of the le all together its now useless lol

when is the last time u actually went out in a rhino firemobbing? because there is a great chance u will loose your rhino everytime w/o having to worry about griefers. a grim persy will kill your rhino so fast it will make your head spin and forget about the invisible damage that happens lol. i cant tell u how many times i had to have the gunner jump out because the rhino is taking too much damage so i can rep. and yes im passionate about this because this is all i do in nc. not once have i ever blocked someones loot. i go places where most people dont go and level alone. that much wont change but now i cant even drive thru places like cycrow (which i usually dont anyways) because every un le'd person in those greifer clans will just shoot to see it blow up then laugh at u on ooc. but i digress.....now im done lol

I have done firemob farming with rhino's before I know exactly what it's like, and tbh it doesn't really matter if you don't drive over corpses or shoot other peoples vehicles this isn't a patch directly aimed at you, its aimed at levelling the game out which is what needs to happen in so many area's a bit at a time.

Yes I can tell you are taking this pretty personally

And to the first point, the LE is to protect YOU from getting killed from other players, it still does that. In a cyberpunk world these bad guys can rob you and not kill you, unlike other non protected players that can rob and kill them

[Jodo]

To clarify this again a quote from the patchnotes: the law enforcer only protects the runner himself, not his belongings! And it also makes sure the runner obeys the law. It is as simple as that.

To clarify myself, this is a terrible vastly unbalanced idea.

I would like to hire Skullz to repeatedly gank whoever spouted this arse-gravy.

[Lucas Kell]

This sounds to me like a way of opening the game up to griefers with no real gain to the gameplay as a whole.
Simply make it so if the owner of a vehicle has an LE, noone can enter it without an LE. That way, you solve the combat issues of LE vehicles with non-LE gunners, and you also add another layer of separation to LE players and non-LE players.

This should encourage more players to remove the LE, which I support as it brings back the risk element into the game.

The current change will just mean LE players aren't allowed vehicles except the quad and NEXT epic as griefers will make it thier mission to destroy the, which to me just alienates new players even more.

Edit: Just to clarify, this really will mean LE players will not be allowed vehicles, since there is no way a non-LE player would leave the LE player alone. The only reason non-LE players don't constantly attack each other is the risk of possibly losing the fight. What you are saying here is "if a non-LE player meets an LE player levelling with a vehicle, the non-LE player has a 100% risk free attack available to them".
Hardly fair eh? This is simply a way of punishing LE players, so why not just have the LE drop out at */30

[Naim]

Look at the end of the line. The result will be that nobody will buy a rhino. People wont use vehicles anymore.
Gamedesign punishes you for using a vehicle.

Be consequent and remove the LE, set a limit like level 10 or just let it as it is.

edit: Wth the time, when I think about it, the idea that the LE only protects the runner himself isnt that bad as I thought in the first place. Reason is this:I have come to the perfect solution for our problem.

Noobs love the vehicles of neocron. Just prohibit LE-Runners from using a vehicle. That motivates them to take the chip out. The gameplay wont change as no LE-player would use his vehicle with patch 181.
The thing with 181 is that is communicates a negative thing: LE-Vehicles can be destroyed but cant shoot back.
Make it positive and say that only Non-LE runners are allowed to pull vehicles.
The result will be the same but the effect will be totalyl different.

[Lucas Kell]

Nevertheless, in case you feel uncomfortable with this change, make a decent, well thought- and layed-out proposal and post it here or send it in, we are always open to suggestions.

I present the following proposal:

Combat mecahnics around vehicles belonging to players with and without Law Enforcers are broken. To prevent griefing from any side, and at the same time promote fair play, I offer the following solution.

For this I will use the follow shorthand:
Vu = Vehicles without Law Enforced Status
Vle = Vehicles with Law Enforced Status
Pu = Players without Law Enforced Status
Ple = Players with Law Enforced Status

Vehicle combat status should be tied to the owners Law Enforcement status, (that is the registered keepers status not the currently active driver)

The following rules are for the ability to enter a vehicle in any way:
Vle may not be entered at any time by a Pu
Vu may not be entered at any time by a Ple

Law Enforcement status for vehicles should work in the same way as Law Enforcement status for players, so:
Vu and Pu can fight and damage each other, but may not fight and damage Vle or Ple
Vle and Ple cannot fight or damage any player or vehicle

[Dribble Joy]

If you can't kill an LEed vehicle, what's there to prevent a clan using LEed rhinos to block the entrances to an OP? Especially if there's an unLEed gunner in it....

P.S. Skulls will gladly take any contract to kill GMs. One MC5 chip per dog tag.

[Lucas Kell]

If you can't kill an LEed vehicle, what's there to prevent a clan using LEed rhinos to block the entrances to an OP? Especially if there's an unLEed gunner in it.....

Make it so you can run through LE vehicles. This will stop them blocking anywhere. lol
OK so that could be an issue that needs to be addressed. It's a much smaller issue than "New players aren't allowed vehicles", since running anywhere is an absolute mission in NC.

It could be made so that if an LE driver enters a bounding sphere around OP entrance, it displays a "Warning! Entering Combat Area - Your vehicle will be vulnerable to attacks in 10 seconds.

Then if you don't get out of the OP area, your vehicles can be destroyed. Make this area or a moderate size to prevent it being too small to worry about. Do the same around genereps.

[Gunshifty]

Make it so you can run through LE vehicles. This will stop them blocking anywhere. lol
OK so that could be an issue that needs to be addressed. It's a much smaller issue than "New players aren't allowed vehicles", since running anywhere is an absolute mission in NC.

It could be made so that if an LE driver enters a bounding sphere around OP entrance, it displays a "Warning! Entering Combat Area - Your vehicle will be vulnerable to attacks in 10 seconds.

Then if you don't get out of the OP area, your vehicles can be destroyed. Make this area or a moderate size to prevent it being too small to worry about. Do the same around genereps.

Here is a simpler solution, make all rhinos vulnerable being attacked in places with outposts, regardless of LE/Non-LE'd owner. That way no tactics like blocking entrances and other crappy bs will work. Not to mention if people are bringing a rhino to an op fight, they better damn well be presented the risk of having it shot to hell.

[Kame]

Guys stop, breathe, and think for a minute or two about the following :

Un-LEd can already blow a LEd vehicle, so nothing changes from the current setting.

What changes though, is that LEd gunner can no longer damage anything, be that LEd or non-LEd vehicle, which they currently can do.

From any perspective, LEd gunner damaging anything player owned/operated was a major flaw.

[William Antrim]

Also bear in mind the LE'd driver can just drive off!!! Who would have thought!!!!

[braydagner]

Guys stop, breathe, and think for a minute or two about the following :

Un-LEd can already blow a LEd vehicle, so nothing changes from the current setting.

What changes though, is that LEd gunner can no longer damage anything, be that LEd or non-LEd vehicle, which they currently can do.

From any perspective, LEd gunner damaging anything player owned/operated was a major flaw.

Just as unLE'd able to damage LE'd is a major flaw, just an apparent acceptable one.

Just make all vehicles able to attack all vehicles regardless of LE status. This is the only logical course of action to correct the bug that is there.

The MAJOR flaw in this patch is that an LE'd vehicle can not defend itself and is forced to sit there and be destroyed. It's just senseless and an affront to this so-called 'fair play' of which people speak. It doesn't make the playing field level in any way, shape, or form. It just seems to appease the people that constantly attack the LE (which is getting really old, and that horse has been long since dead).

The people who like how this patch is set up are probably the same people that go around killing 0/2's and tradeskillers then mock them in HELP and OOC for being bad.

[Faid]

Guys stop, breathe, and think for a minute or two about the following :

Un-LEd can already blow a LEd vehicle, so nothing changes from the current setting.

Everything changes from the current setting. The way it is now, only A Vehicle gunner could damage an LE'd vehicle. With the new patch, anyone UN-LE'd with any weapon at all can damage LE'd Vehicles. It's much easier to blow up a vehicle with a Creed than shooting at it from a Rhino. This patch is ridiculous.