replacing the LE by soullight rules

[Torg]

all our discussions on the LE subject seem to deal with the question of removal vs non-removal only. some players want more pvp, some not. but what would we get in a (NC)-world without (or with reduced usage of) the LE? more mindless ganking, and the inner need to start revenge wars between clans and alliances?

i am firmly convinced we all could play happily without the LE - just put in other measures to deal with ganking. killing a lower-ranked char should be punished (by law), isnt it? killing an allied char should be punished as well, shouldn't it? once upon a time there was the concept of soullight: once you killed a friendly (or neutral) outside a warzone, your soullight value dropped, even into red numbers. what if copbots and faction guards one-(or two-, or three-) shotted a "criminal" on sight? what if we set a skill minimum for handing in res-missions (and comparable), so you couldn't "buy" back green soullight? what if Yo's would refuse to do business with a criminal? what if we made regaining green SL a chore? wouldn't that be wonderful in terms of roleplay?

i just suspect an SL system replacing the LE would please some of you, while others would strictly oppose that concept. because a few among us still want NC to be counterstrike on a bigger map, while others are perfectly fine with the given situation. so i just doubt the LE and its terms of usage will change. ever.

but 'in the name of understanding' i'd like to hear (read) your thoughts on the concept of 'replacing the LE by soullight rules'.

[William Antrim]

Make people fear the penalties of copbots imo. However the way to regain sympathy and soullight should be either time consuming or expensive but ideally not both.

[Dribble Joy]

I'm currently writing up a thread about consequences for a runner's 'bad' actions.

The main issue that any such system faces is that people can use their 'good' alts to support their 'bad' chars.

Besides, I think the LE is something of a separate issue (though related). I personally have no problem with what it does, but I would like similar xp/cash reductions as in NC1.

[Deus Ex Machina]

While those ideas sound quite nice to my ears, and I would like something similar implemented, i don't think you could replace the LE with that rules.
There are still those that just want to play a PvE game here, communicating with others and RP only with words. And I think most of the population don't want to loose them.
But having a good set of consequences in place might just convince more people to take their LE out. At the moment it just happens that the "friendly" guy that just shot you idles next to you in Plaza 1. That just seems wrong.

So i think in some way you could "replace" LE with those rules, because if more people are satisfied with the way the game handles people that work against the faction system and against the lowest players, they might just take it out.
But just replacing it would be a very very hard work, since the system would have to be secure against exploiting, and still the Neocron wide wastes would be a danger to those that REALLY don't want enemy player contact. (And thinking how many of those sectors are battlefield sectors, there are a lot where no consequences come to the aggressor).
Still, such a system that is more hard against those working against it, not more protecting of them, would be very nice to have.

[Dope]

Wasn't there a time when copbots shot and killed low SL runners in Plaza and shit?
I seem to remember loling when that happened...

Also, I recall that there was a time when CB's were a bit more trigger happy. I got whacked by some TS in PP right in front of a cop and as far as I could tell he had LOS on the guy that shot me, but didn't shoot back. I was a little miffed with Reeza's Finest that day.

But, so as not to derail - I'll clarify my position.

I think that the LE system is cool for low levels, and could be replaced or made less relevant at high levels with a good and comprehensive SL penalty or similar, that allows a TG style terrorist group to operate in "wild, uncontrolled or 0 sec" type places but not in the "safe, corp sec, etc." places.

A key hurdle here is the idea that an LE player should be safe everywhere / have access to all content without fear of negative human interactions. Until we can settle that, the LE issue seems stalled out.

This applies to this argument in the following way: If we change SL rules in order to remove LE's while mitigating "gank" killing, what happens to the wasteland/Pepper Park/Non-Corp areas? Are there penalties in those places for killing people? Are those "0 Sec" or "Unregulated" or similar, while other areas are more regulated?

In the Shadowrun / Neuromancer / Cyberpunk universes, there is an idea that "Mr Suit" doesn't go into scary places, he hires the mercs, the runners, the thugs. Neocron was also built with this idea, it was built into the original penalty/LE scheme as well as the factional arrangement.

In short, Tradeskillers, PvE guys, "Corp. Sararimen" - these guys just didn't go to Pepper Park or Canyon if they could avoid it, ever. They weren't butthurt by the idea though, it was just part of the game, and when this game shipped, there was not yet the idea of a division between PvE and PvP, these were just "how this game worked" and since there was very little even much like it, no one had genre expectations.

Nowadays there is a mindset (thanks WoW), that PvE players should get to "Play how they want" (their words) and go wherever, and SEE ALL THE THINGS! Like asking for a free pass to do a walking tour of North Korea, because "Hey, you play your way and I play mine, right?" without ever acknowledging that "playing your way" in this case violates core precepts of the game world. It's playing an MMO in a single player mode, (because those other guys are bothersome) at best, and playing a game with half of the rules turned off at worst. It's not even Minecraft creative, it's "I modded all the faction encounters out of my RPG." - Would you load up Fallout and turn off Caesar or the Brotherhood so you could "play your way?" Seems like that's what's happening here.

Until that issue is put to rest, we're sort of stuck.