1. #91
    Registered User Atropos's Avatar
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    That brings it pretty much back to what i said already.
    You want ppl to remover their LE?
    Get out and help them, let them feel the joys and thrills, the protection and the advantages of a cool clan, and they will remove it to become a part of it.
    Simple enough to give it a try, and if it works, certainly more effective and faster than a LE System change wich might never come.
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  2. #92
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Fox. I love your ideas. thats all i can say. even in the face of this ridiculous opposition. keep it going.
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  3. #93

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    Unrestricted access to end game content. A distinct advantage over any non le player. Grant mine for example is held by a clan to allow its members a better chance to farm techs with such a nice fire mob spawn. when an le guy shows up the clan takes a back seat. i have read alot of great suggestions like lvl caps with an le to stop use of mc5 chips and rare guns. i also do not support the le functioning in ceres labs, doy tunnels or mc5. Clan claimed outpost areas should be no le also.. i do think the le plays an important role and should remain. but it should be greatly limited in the scope it is allowed to harm the game as it stands.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Not really.
    It is more this: the thread is moving in a circle and somewhat needless.
    Your one of the reasons this thread is moving in a cricle, as i havnt read anything constructive from you, only nearly fanatic opposition. And "needless", well thats your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Because your intention to give people a reward or bonus if they remove the LE is most unnecessary - they remove it themselve at a given point in time.

    As it was stated in this thread already: let people choose the time for removing/ wearing their LE for themselves. Let them choose their playstyle. This was working all the time. Why changing a running combination ?
    I believe its necessary, it worked that way for most of neocrons time, and it did well, much better than the current "combination".
    And neither is it forcing anyone to remove it, nor does it take away the choice of time to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Because a bonus for one group of players is automatically a malus for the other one. (Would you say let people dupe because it does not affect me ?)

    Because making the bonus to small it's useless (e.g. XP gain bonus), make bonus to big it is a risk of imbalancing.
    Not entirely true, it depends on a lot more factors that just that, alone by the fact that there are two groups of players means they have different views on whats a bonus and a malus. For example a pure PvE player, a person who enjoys leveling and grinding would view a permanent xp boost for himself as a malus, it cuts his playtime per character.

    And based on that, let me turn around your argumentation: not getting a XP Boost is a malus for none LEs, as they get killed while leveling, or cant access a leveling spot due to hostile runners, just because they choose to play without an LE.

    Back in NC1 and NC2 pre 2.1/2 this wasnt any issue as you did gain more XP without an LE, basically view it as a compensation for getting killed, but now it doesnt anymore.

    So arent you basicaly forcing those players to keep their LE in, denying them the choice?

    (And that dupe example, god was that a stupid example. Dupe is a bug exploit, no one should be able to do that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    That brings it pretty much back to what i said already.
    You want ppl to remover their LE?
    Get out and help them, let them feel the joys and thrills, the protection and the advantages of a cool clan, and they will remove it to become a part of it.
    Simple enough to give it a try, and if it works, certainly more effective and faster than a LE System change wich might never come.
    Basicaly a good idea, but i doubt that any clan would do that. I know regulators do some community services as helping newbies (i do too, be it even just flying them to MB, as im only one person), capturing and opening OPs near Leveling Spots such as Regants and CRP.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    (...)
    Because a bonus for one group of players is automatically a malus for the other one. (Would you say let people dupe because it does not affect me ?) (...)
    Utter bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    (...)
    As it was stated in this thread already: let people choose the time for removing/ wearing their LE for themselves. Let them choose their playstyle. This was working all the time. Why changing a running combination ?(...)
    Well it wasn't always this way. About 6 years ago a lot of Epic Runs required runners to kill an enemy runner. Not an NPC, an actual PLAYER. This is a fact.

    Now since the mission was usually rank 40+ requirement, once you took your LE out you couldn't put it back. This, to me, was one of the many "impressive by it's design" features of the game. It was mature and unforgiving.

  6. #96
    Overpowered PE Satan2k2's Avatar
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    I got an idea right now, that will (i hope so) satisfy anyone:

    Give non-LE user an XP Boost. But at the same time remove the restriction, that non-LE user can support LE user or remove the restriction of the closed GenReps to LE users.

    We all agree that LE user can't participate in PvP so they can't support non-LE user.
    We all agree that LE user can't hack an OP, so it's not necessary to close the GR for them.

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  7. #97
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxDF View Post
    Your one of the reasons this thread is moving in a cricle, as i havnt read anything constructive from you, only nearly fanatic opposition. And "needless", well thats your opinion. .....
    Maybe most aspects are discussed now, but let me make short remark about your personal insult on me.

    First - of course everything i am posting here is my "opinion. What else ?? It's not my intention to be polemic even it sounds sometimes this way. Hard to believe that one could be responsible if a thread is not leading to an simple result. Eventually the issue itself is to complex or not straightforward ?

    And if a majority of opinions is forming here in this forum or it seems so, than it is not implicit the majority of players. Lot of players do not take part in the discussions here, do not read the forum at all. If you are discussing the issues ingame you often will find complete different statements. To repeat something again and again does not mean that it's true or that it is the persuasion of the majority.

    btw, to become personal is a bad style always. If you are not able/willing to take my writings constructive, but posting "what you believe" is dubiuos, sorry.

    Reed

  8. #98
    für einen freien Geist Deus Ex Machina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan2k2 View Post
    [...] It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.
    Comment got made a bit back, but:
    It is not a BIG disadvantage. It is a disadvantage though.

    But speaking of disadvantages:
    Non LEs lose more money:
    - They might get killed and lose money
    - They may have to tip the implanter and lose money
    - Your Belt might get hacked and you lose an item, replacing it costs money

    Non LEs make less money:
    - If you get killed, the time till you are fixed up again, SI is gone and you are back at the place you don't make money

    Non LEs make less XP
    - If you get killed, the time till you are fixed up again, SI is gone and you are back at the place you don't make XP

    Non LEs have less time
    Some points that depend on time are already mentioned in the upper points (less XP and Money because of less time for leveling)
    - If you get killed while exploring you just plain lose time. You have to go back, maybe fix up again, then you can explore that area again.

    I'd say that are quite the disadvantages for Non LEs. And I am sure there are many people that would trade their fourth Brain Slot to not have them. (For example if they could just stand up again after being killed, with no implants falling out, no money being lost, ...)
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  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Hard to believe that one could be responsible if a thread is not leading to an simple result. Eventually the issue itself is to complex or not straightforward ?

    btw, to become personal is a bad style always. If you are not able/willing to take my writings constructive, but posting "what you believe" is dubiuos, sorry.
    I didnt say that you are the only one responsible.

    But let me tell you why i dont take your writing as constuctive:
    1: You first post in this thread was nothing more than the standard "DONT CHANGE THE LE!!!111one" post you can find in any LE related thread, great first impression.
    2: Questions directed at you to explain your thesis further get ignored by you.
    3: Counter thesises to your assumptions get ignored by you.
    4: As soon as there is the slightest point available for a counter, oh a post by dr reed, no matter if it was already covered.

    That makes it quiet hard to be able or willing to take your posts as constuctive contribution to the topic.


    And on "most of the players arent here in the forums": im well aware of that, and i also talked alot about this ingame, in fact i even got encouraged to create this thread by a lot of people ingame, after talking with them about the current LE state.

  10. #100
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Satan the idea of letting le'd players use grs without any worry is the worst one in this thread. If le'd players want to use a gr they should take out the le and fight for it.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  11. #101
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan2k2 View Post
    Give non-LE user an XP Boost. But at the same time remove the restriction, that non-LE user can support LE user.
    The bold part has been said by me a million times. The other part could be tricky to code in. example if the person can cast a buff on the LE dude who says they cant cast a bullet on them too
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    Something is wrong.
    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  12. #102
    Overpowered PE Satan2k2's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know, but thats balancing
    One get a disadvantage, the other one, too. One get a advantage, the other one, too.

    But both get an advantage: non-LE user get more XP AND as LE user you can level with non-LE PPU together.

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  13. #103
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxDF View Post
    I didnt say that you are the only one responsible.

    But let me tell you why i dont take your writing as constuctive:
    1: You first post in this thread was nothing more than the standard "DONT CHANGE THE LE!!!111one" post you can find in any LE related thread, great first impression.
    2: Questions directed at you to explain your thesis further get ignored by you.
    3: Counter thesises to your assumptions get ignored by you.
    4: As soon as there is the slightest point available for a counter, oh a post by dr reed, no matter if it was already covered.

    That makes it quiet hard to be able or willing to take your posts as constuctive contribution to the topic.


    And on "most of the players arent here in the forums": im well aware of that, and i also talked alot about this ingame, in fact i even got encouraged to create this thread by a lot of people ingame, after talking with them about the current LE state.
    Now it would be not ok to stay off topic here, so i will keep it short.

    I expected you to state that lot of players ingame encouraged you to start this thread. You do not have to proof it, nor could you ever. So every of your statements here stay opinions, not more.

    From my point of view it's all but not constructive to ignore questions and repeat same arguments again and again. If this is true for me it's true for you also.

    Reed

  14. #104
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Actually he came on our vent server and four of the posters you have seen here discussed it with him at length, along with three more who do not post on the forums so yeah eight people discussed it for over an hour.


    I think that that is proof enough.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  15. #105

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    Don't know if it's been brought up yet but the whole "We don't have that fourth brain slot" is not a real drawback to an LE player. That slot won't help you unless you pvp anyways so stop bringing that up. I've encountered LE'd tanks using the Creed(STR 114 is hard to get on a tank period but with an LE in, come on!) and hitting every mob they see, they don't care if you're out there trying to farm either because they have the mentality of "What are you gonna do to me? NOTHING. Oh AND I hit harder than you so go ahead and try to outdamage me".

    Currently I'd say more LE players are out there grieving other players than non-LE players are allowed to. And believe it or not but every time that I have seen a non-LE low level runner, I never kill them because that's not a fight. I guarantee that I'm not the only one that thinks this way either. So you LE guys need to get a grip, sure ganking would happen if LE rules changed but more times than not if you talk to that person(not with a hate speech) after he ganks you he most likely will help you out. This game thrives on things like this and it makes the community come together in the end.

    Also to every thread that suggests non-LE players to gain more exp. How is it that you LE supporters do not understand that when you take your LE out you are putting your items and characters life at risk every time you go out to hunt/farm. So why shouldn't there be a risk/reward system in place for non-LE players?

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