The current LE, what it used to be, and its impact on the community - Discussion

[Torg]

Patience is not cyberpunk

right. cyberpunk-RGPs are about consequences. your actions will determine your faction-relations, npc-relations, missions you're getting offered. all we need is a (numeric) system to rate your actions and consequences. (see also dribbles brainport post) in an ideal online world we wouldnt even need an LE - because all actions had consequences.

so lets commonly develop and discuss alternatives to the LE in terms of consequences instead of just demanding the removal of the LE. hint: we will never ever have a neocron where you can go out and shoot anyone just for fun. its an MMORPG, not a shooter, and this will never change.

[Atropos]

Im not sure if it was suggested already, but, if one would have to kill a runner again to complete the epic, like it used to be, this could be a reason to take the le out.
Dont get me wrong, in fact, im not one of the "LE hate crew", but the argument that clan based game athmosphere is a key to the NC experience, is really a strong one.
I do have chars with and without LE.
The reason behind the ones wearing an LE is , i must admit, due to the fact that i havnt really found the right clan now.
And here we got the snake biting its tail (or was it a cat?).
Would it be better to join any clan, wich may not follow the politics that i would normally, just for the sake of being clanned and protected, or is it better to be able to wait, until the playerbase settles a bit, enjoy the fact that i wont be ganked, but having to play like a lone wolf" until the right peoples show themselves?

Im still not sure, thats why i am on both sides of the coin atm.

But one thing i know for sure, i am happy to have the choice, and i guess that i am not alone with this one.
So, if anything in the LE mechanic is to be changed, it will have to be done in a very cautious way, because i wouldnt want to be forced in a specific way, even if i like the way im forced into if you know what i mean.

Still, the opening argument is valid, NC is best being clanned. Its a pity that some factions have many small clans, with barely somebody online, instead of maybe 2 or 3 bigger ones, where one might have the chance to find anyone to play with (but thats another issue).

So, to sum it up, if someone should be pushed to remove the enforcer, it should happen really softly, i a way, that leaves it possible to enjoy the game however one likes.
Wich leaves something like: No woc with LE, no epic or maybe 20% less Xp.

But a no go area for enforced people (Doy tunnels Mc5 etc)like some would love to see, are clearly a bad idea.

Also, (i admit that there are a lot of emo posts about the topic) some guys should rethink if their behaviour is really the right one to get the folks to remove the Le.
I mean, shooting everyone one sight, wont get a noob to remove the Le, does it?
And, to all the people having good memories of Nc1, and of its helpful playerbase back then, what stops you from doing it right now?
Get your Clanmates to a cave, and spread it through the Channels that your Clan is keeping that special cave clean from pks for pro/anti city folks, and watch out for a good fight wich will certainly arise.
Btw a good way to recruit.
Or what about building some teams, with one or two ppu to help noobs lvl up (of course this works only if they take the LE out wich, in turn gets you closer to your goal).
Why did i never see Clans advertise with this kind of stuff?
This game offers a lot of possibilities, with just a little effort from the playerbase. As long as no ones is playing these cards, i dont see why the devs should invest time they dont have, to change something that isnt really broken, because on thing is for sure:

Those who want to take it out, will do so sooner or later, and those who dont, wont, no matter what anyone do.

Sorry for the misspelling, but somedays english is hard, and today is one of these days.

[FoxDF]

That... is a fairly naive point of view.
The only reason those idiots shoot everything at sight is because they can and because they have fun with it. I don't believe or see any reason that they want or seek a challenge when they shoot at anything below their level. Boredom maybe,but not because there is no challenge.

I have to admit it might be naive at some point, but i believe most of those kills are for that reason, basic furstration and boredom.
And yes, im aware that there are always some douchebag who shoot everything in sight, you can find those people in every game.

If any proof for the real intention of the LE-discussions was needed ever - here it is.

"Pls take out your LE as soon as possible- we have nothing to shoot at !" )

Ey sorry this is polemic and was not serious, i admit.

I guess that IS the intention for most of the LE threads in this forum, but sorry not for my thread =)

I cannot understand at all why here is such a panic ??? Let them remove their LE's if time is right for them. Most of the levelling players will remove their LE even WITHOUT your rewards !

On Mars 7 of my 8 Chars were non-LE. What is your problem ???

Cant say that im in panic about this or anything like that. And i cant understand how you believe that this would be a "panic".
This is a discussion about the "psychological" impact the LE used to have on the community and a suggestion to reinstate this impact in a way it wont hurt pure PvE players.

I dont know when exactly the LE Penalty got removed, but correct me if im wrong, the change came with 2.1 Evo. At least it was still present in 2005 on Mars.
(Would be nice if someone would have a date and source for the penalty removal, couldnt find it per google.)

So what was your reason for removing your LEs? A Clan? Boredome? PvP? Or maybe just the XP Penalty and you forgott that it existed back then? Im just currious and would like to know what made you remove them.

[Kame]

I would like Epic kill to be re-instated.

[William Antrim]

I would like Epic kill to be re-instated.

Me too. It is carebear currently. But someone will say it is abusable.

[Torg]

Me too. It is carebear currently. But someone will say it is abusable.

the problem is: the epic player kill was viable back then, when everybody and their little sister were plugging LEs right in the MC5. today a poor little /45 had to find and kill someone - so you'd either cheat by using a enemy alt or run into some capped guy and fail.

[Drachenpaladin]

the problem is: the epic player kill was viable back then, when everybody and their little sister were plugging LEs right in the MC5. today a poor little /45 had to find and kill someone - so you'd either cheat by using a enemy alt or run into some capped guy and fail.

Or pay someone for a killwhoring, which is at least still somewhat reasonable within the setting.

[Doc Holliday]

Or pay someone for a killwhoring, which is at least still somewhat reasonable within the setting.

which is precisely what people used to do.

Or you got lucky like me when nc2 first started up and managed to run in to a bd runner in pepper park 2 while running the dre epic. And getting the kill for free

[Satan2k2]

I don't know if someone wrote this already:

You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.

[Dropout]

I don't know if someone wrote this already:

You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.

I kinda agree.
XP malus with LE in = slower leveling = less people to fight. Even if they removed the LE, it would still mean slower XP, since we all know that a lot of people here just enjoy ganking.

One thing I would like to have removed from LEs though. The ability to get WoC. Ofc, you should be able to get the XP, but you shouldnt be able to activate it.

[DR REED]

I don't know if someone wrote this already:

You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.

Simple issue, but true ! - How could we overlook this all the time ?? oO

Reed

[Deus Ex Machina]

I don't know if someone wrote this already:

You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.

Simple issue, but true ! - How could we overlook this all the time ?? oO

Reed

Because if the Non LEers get more XP than now instead of someone getting less, then the Speed of LE wearers leveling doesn't change at all compared to now. But it IS an important issue that should not be overlooked if anything is done :-)

[FoxDF]

I don't know if someone wrote this already:

You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.

I kinda agree.
XP malus with LE in = slower leveling = less people to fight. Even if they removed the LE, it would still mean slower XP, since we all know that a lot of people here just enjoy ganking.

One thing I would like to have removed from LEs though. The ability to get WoC. Ofc, you should be able to get the XP, but you shouldnt be able to activate it.

Simple issue, but true ! - How could we overlook this all the time ?? oO

Reed

Funny, maybe because you didnt read the opening post?

So long story short, there should be a XP gain difference between LE'd and none LE'd players again.
Note i say difference, not penalty, as we cant just simple put in back the penalty again, that would just alienate the PvE players and low levels.
But we should increase the XP gain for non LE'd players.

Now guess why i did write that.

[Satan2k2]

Yeah, but some others in this thread wrote: "LE should get lesser XP". But my point was, that the LE user already have a big disadvantage and so the non-LE'd dont need to be boosted.

Another point is: noob ganking. This whole thread is about it, too. "Noobs" pull out there LE to get more XP and get ganked like hell from other players. And this is already a given, but not that much.

[DR REED]

Funny, maybe because you didnt read the opening post?

Not really.

It is more this: the thread is moving in a circle and somewhat needless.

Because your intention to give people a reward or bonus if they remove the LE is most unnecessary - they remove it themselve at a given point in time.

Because a bonus for one group of players is automatically a malus for the other one. (Would you say let people dupe because it does not affect me ?)

Because making the bonus to small it's useless (e.g. XP gain bonus), make bonus to big it is a risk of imbalancing.

As it was stated in this thread already: let people choose the time for removing/ wearing their LE for themselves. Let them choose their playstyle. This was working all the time. Why changing a running combination ?

Reed