The current LE, what it used to be, and its impact on the community - Discussion

[Strife]

i suspect this isnt the last anti-LE-thread. though most players are perfectly fine with the current situation, there's a vocal few who refuse to understand there's different playing styles, and who wont stop whining (sorry, but that's what it is) about other people having opinions on their own.
removing the LE already has huge advantages - you get a critical 4th brainslot and access to PvP, the most valued endgame content - so remove it and have fun playing your way. really.

This is a horrible attempt at pretending there's all kinds of awesome super reasons for removing your LE. The 4th slot is in no way critical...unless you're PvPing.

There is no real bonus, or incentive for a player to remove their LE unless they were going to in the first place. And that's the problem.

[Mortis]

This is a horrible attempt at pretending there's all kinds of awesome super reasons for removing your LE. The 4th slot is in no way critical...unless you're PvPing.

There is no real bonus, or incentive for a player to remove their LE unless they were going to in the first place. And that's the problem.

biggest advantage by removing the LE are Clans!

[Strife]

biggest advantage by removing the LE are Clans!

I stand corrected, the one bonus.

[Chuck Norris]

Remove le"s i want to pekay anyone anytime stoopid carebears!

[Doc Holliday]

You fucking morons who ( apart from strife whos point i will address in a moment ) have totally failed to grasp the whole quintessential point of this opening post.

For the record i wholeheartedly DISAGREE with forced removal of the LE chip on people and im not 100% sold on the dissallowing of LE players to participate in the high end content stuff (mc5 etc) From a story point of view you go there to have the damn thing implanted and get brainwashed when you start. How would the top end game content then deactivate it so it cant be used in the zone when farming parts....... its a tough one but my tiny brain cant configure a good idea right now.

So back on topic. This is not about encouraging people to remove the le so they can be ganked or get involved in pvp so some 1337 Pr0 Pk4r5 can 0wn everyone and turn this game in to cs.

What you people who disagree with the op need to do ideally is actually take the time to consider just what was actually proposed instead of spewing forth the same rhetoric in each thread. Just like the Anti LE threads get old so does your bullshit.

Until this one.

I actually see the bigger picture in what is being profered for discussion here. Without an LE people will join clans. It will foster that sense of friendship and kinship. It will grow the player base. It IS the essence of neocrack. Its how this game grew and got started. Complete immersion in this cyberpunk world with likeminded individuals. This is how some of us got fucking hooked on this game. The community made it so. If you got ganked as a low level you called it out on trade and people came. the community self policed itself. It took care of the new runners. It gave them something to aspire to and its what kept people coming back all these years.

Its that that i miss the most out of nc1. that sense of community. I realised this after reading this thread. we all miss aspects of the game back then for different reasons (class balance et al. Different classes being viable/op hybrids anyone? :P) but i realised reading this thread that what got me hooked in was the chance to wear a clan tag. To be a part of something and to truly enjoy the game experience.

I accepted i was cannon fodder (even whined like a little bitch at level 30 cause i lost my 4 slot TAR because i was pked. pre belt drops guys. weapon 1 was droppable. the guy gave it me back in the end. i still hated him) and i got on with the business of levelling. I would never have learned to pvp if i had not completely immersed myself in it from the word go.

Yes the game has changed. times have changed. balance changed it. woc changed it. But the underlying theme to this is the playerbase. Its how you retain a good solid core of people. Clans. Factions. Alliances. Politics. Wars. All these things made nc great because underneath it all was that risk and threat of a fight that added a layer of extra brilliance programming cannot on its own deliver.

Now tell me. can you get all this with the LE chip still in. NO.

Joining a clan should mean something again. I accept that so many of you went through the bad years of terra which fortunately i did not. I quit in late 2007/early 2008 and walked away with no intention of returning until late last year before the server move to canada when my brother (props to him) pulled me back in and here i am.

So. Open your minds not your mouths. Apologies for the opening flame in the post but stupidity and ignorance piss me off and im still unsure which of you who object to these posts suffer which but rest assured both can be cured.

Peace.

[FoxDF]

Your sight is the goodguy one, my time on Mars was dominated by cheater/ganker clans and players, using every cheat and hack they could get, editing every single client based file which gave advantages. Besides that of course normal and friendly groups and clans were gathering and this was possible even with this construct of LE.

Ive played a long time on Mars, since the launch of NC2 back in 2004 until Summer 2007 (At that time most of my friends left NC, and the Population was so damn low, it feelt like neocron was dead). Do you realy believe that i didnt experience all this exploiting and cheating? I did, i dont even want to count how many times ive been blown to pieces by APUs casting thru a whole "Mountain/Hill" at CRP. And back then, the LE still had its penalty.

Your first part is reading somewhat like a glossing view of Neocron (i am not trolling ), and then come your conclusions, which are not matching the former part ot your post:

- enhancing the XP gain for non-LE
- increasing the non-LE-pvp-faction (but how ?^^)
- you are encouraging players to form/ joi n clans (but why ? is this necessary ?)

Might be glossy, but i prefered to remember the good parts of my time in this game, and not the bad parts, especialy not if thoes dont have anything to do with the threads subject. And the middle part explained what the xp penalty did, encourage players to remove the LE, experience other parts than just pve grinding earlier. And the conclusion of a XP Gain is simple, as now everybody new is used to get 100% xp even with an LE, a penalty would alienate those players, but a XP Gain would not.

The XP Gain it self, as a reward for taking the risk of getting ganked, would increase the amount of players playing against each other. Who? Many people would remove it to level faster, this would also increase the amount of higher level chars with no LE. Currently most people only remove it to join a clan or once they WoC'd.
Because the bound of good Clans was something NC did better than most games, and i believe new players miss a good part of NCs fun without a clan.

If your a PvE Only player, Lone Wolf, or only joined bad clans in your past, then i can understand why you ask for a reason.

I am not trolling or affronting you, i am only tired to read again and again how LE is runing the game. As i said let people choose how they wish to play the game. If you makes things worser for one of the groups this is not let them choose.

And to make this clear: I ever have (and will) oppose intentions to transform this very nice MMO+roleplay game into a cheap copy of 3rd person pvp trash. Neocron is a very unique composition and it would be great pity if this direction is chosen.

Make good balancing, add (not remove !) content, add comlexity (not simplifications!), make game fair (remove exploits & hacks, ban cheater) - this makes sense and this is what the game is lacking at most.

I never said that the LE is ruining the game itself, only that its current version breaks a part of the game, and i never wanted to take away the choice of how to play, thats why i did talk about an XP Gain and not a Penalty, its encouraging people, giving them some reward for choosing the risky way, like it used to be.

Now apparently you still didnt get it, so ill make it clear once more: I never had, and never will have, the intention to turn NC into some generik pvp shooter.

And the Dev Team is already doing a better job at balancing then KK ever did since nc2.0, and i never said anything about removing or simplifying content.

[Ivan Eres]

TBH I think this game needs to be played without a LE. It's the best way for me to really experience everything NC is.

However, I tolerate other people's play styles and opinions regarding this matter.

To me these threads about the LE feel like a gaming culture clash.

It's like casual gamers against hardcore players. Ten years earlier games were not as forgiving as today, but the market was also a lot smaller. Gamers once were laughed upon. Now it's a mainstream thing, and this has changed. There is no reverting back.

Playing without a LE makes the game much harder for normal players.

I don't think there will ever be a common ground between these two factions.

My opinion is to let everybody play the way they want. It's the same in life. Let people live the life they want and let them be what they want to be. As long as there is no harm done to others this is perfectly fine for me.

Of course it would be cool if there was no LE at all. I'd like that a lot. But it is not possible at the moment. If a new PvP server were to be made where there is no LE at all I would play it. Since the comm is still too small for this it doesn't make sense now.

I suggest to take it as it is and let the people play the way they wanna as long as we are all together on one server.

[Deus Ex Machina]

I support the thread openers suggestions to I think 100%.

Oh and for the record: I am against taking out the LE completly, by force, or anything resembling that (Since there are always people that mix serveral ideas up and go critical)

[nabbl]

As I already said, I have to support the OPs suggestions. But there is something I want to add:

There are people in this game, which level their characters, hunt some rare parts and do some WOC Runs just to be able to compete in PvP later on. They are able to do all of that while wearing their LE.

I think it should not be possible to level for PvP Gear (and I say PvP Gear because you don't need Rares or a WoC-PA for PVE!) without having to do some PvP in the Meanwhile.

[FoxDF]

An XP Increase for none LE players would reduce that too i believe, but taking rares and woc away from PvE players wouldnt be a good thing as most PvE players like to grind and collect stuff, it would basicaly cut content away from them, as yes they dont need it, but they sure would like to have it.

With the XP Increase for none LE players, there would still be a choice, level and collect safe, or risk something and level faster.
And quiet frankly, nearly all the guys ive talked ingame about the WoC and LE issues, said they would risk getting killed for a XP Increase, which would automaticly decrese the amount of LE WoCers.

[L0KI]

Really, FoxDF nailed it. I couldn't agree more with your post. I genuinely don't understand how people can disagree with you, unless of course they never experienced the times you speak of. If that's the case, I feel sorry for them; they don't have a clue what they missed.

Now, here's my thoughts :

Option 1 :

- XP gain HALVED for LE'd players
- Stat cap at 85% of max level (not WoC)

Option 2 :

- LE falls out at xx/30

Option 3 :

- Some kind of boost to non-LE players, maybe a 30% boost to XP gain.

Option 4 (my personal favourite) :

- Remove it from the fucking game, entirely. Force players to come together to combat that PKer. Make it all matter again.

[Doc Holliday]

I disagree with you but only because i don't think its fair to punish players for keeping it in. times have changed. I fully support more benefits to removing it. It will serve both sides of the argument. I still feel it robs people of true immersion in the game though.

[L0KI]

I disagree with you but only because i don't think its fair to punish players for keeping it in. times have changed. I fully support more benefits to removing it. It will serve both sides of the argument. I still feel it robs people of true immersion in the game though.

I read your post in full, I already know you disagree with me

I do see your point, however I think it's perfectly fair to punish people for leaving the LE in. The more pro-LE players that leave their LE in, the less immersion for those that don't. Story line aside (and yeah, I've read it - you made me), we're talking about something that would improve the game for everyone here; even those that disagree. They may not see it now, but the OP was completely bang on in painting a picture of the old days.

This thread has made me realise that tt's not so much that I miss NC1, it's that I miss the sense of community and forced communication we had back then.

Here it is in its simplest form :

Example 1:

You're in the aggie cellars, when you encounter another play. Both players are LE'd. The chances are, neither player will talk to, or even acknowledge the other. They'll simply ignore one another and continue with their PvE content.

Example 2:

You're in the same aggie cellar, when you encounter the same player. Both players are non-LE'd. There's absolutely no way you and this other player will ignore one another. You'll start a conversation, or at least attempt to, in order to assess your safety down there with this player. Result of this situation? You either make a friend, or you make an enemy. At the very least, you've acknowledged and made contact with that person, meaning you'll remember their name and say 'hello' next time. Either way, you've just levelled up the community spirit.

[The Real Xtro]

Read All the arguments and TBH its all pointless atm because untill they balance the game as far as class/weapon damage/ need for speed all we are ever going to have is the players allready in the game, make too many changes and face empty servers as people get bored and stop logging on and as people freely admit that 95% of players keep the LE in guess what changing the LE situation ain't gonna help the player base.

Work on balance and everything else will fall into place.

[Chuck Norris]

Make a new pvp server and then watch it go down in flames like before imho, dont ruin titan