1. #1

    Exclamation The current LE, what it used to be, and its impact on the community - Discussion

    Hi there, havnt posted here for a long time.

    The Law Enforcer, most of you hate or love it, and many even say it breaks the game.
    I have to say, from my point of view, after playing for some weeks again and looking back at all the years of playing neocron: Your right, in its current state it does break some part of Neocron, and I'm not talking about stuff like bashing people in P2 or ganking, it breaks something even more important, something that made neocron unique in the first place.

    I'm talking about the way people play as a community, currently you see only a few people without LEs, and those without LEs are mostly people with friend in clans or just pvp maniacs, the rest is running around LE'd.

    Now lets talk about the pro and contra of the current LE, after that ill get to what it used to be and its impact on the community itself.

    The current LE gives you, as a runner, the following advantages:
    1. You cant get killed by other runners
    2. You don't drop anything should you die



    The disadvantages are:
    1. You cant kill other runners
    2. You cant hack belts
    3. You cant join a clan



    Basically currently, unless you got friend in a clan and want to join them, there is no reason to pull out your LE until your Capped (Or even WoC'd) and fully equipped to join the PvP fun, if you pull it earlier, your just fragmeat for those ganking/pvp maniacs.
    This has destroyed one of the most unique features that Neocron ever had, the only other game i know which has a similar feature is EVE Online.

    What feature you might ask?
    Well, the LE used to have a XP Penalty, pulling your LE allowed you to level faster while being at risk to be killed by other runners.
    You might say "Oh great feature, making us low level characters and PvE players leveling even slower.", well that wasn't the point of this, i guess the originally intended reason for this was to reward players who risk something, or compensate for the leveling time lost by dieing, i don't know what really was the intention KK had in mind, but i know its impact on the community, I've experienced it myself and seen it countless times happening.
    In the old days, when you began your journey in neocron, there was a high chance that you meet a non LE'd player who would tell you about the XP Penalty of the LE, encouraging you to remove it. Many players did remove it, and entered the great part of neocron: Binding people.

    When you removed your LE back then, you died a lot thanks to other players, you might even ask for help, and if you did, most of the time someone helped you defeating the ganker, be it just for the fun of a fight, or to protect newer players, whatever was the reason, there was a person who helped you, in this big digital world full of people you don't know, this could, and did quiet often, to some talk about the game itself, or even lead to a friendship, later even maybe a clan invite. The reason for this was simple, the person or persons who did help you are the first ones you might know that you could consider as friendly, people who you can talk to, ask questions, or even for help again, making him/her/them your first attachment figure inside the game, basically makes you meet people who not only just level at the same spot as you do.
    If the persons helping you where already in a clan, there was a high chance that those people introduce you to their clan, explaining the advantages of being in a clan. Sometimes this whole process even led to the forming of clans out of now where, just from people who meet ingame.

    This forming of bounds, was one of the most unique features of neocron in my opinion, and made me love the game since the first day, because it also happened to me, being ganked by higher level chars and asking for help, soon after that i was in a clan, not alone anymore, and that is where the real fun started.
    That is what the LEs XP Penalty really did, and for those pure PvE players it didnt make a great difference, as they got used to the xp penalty from the beginning, for the rest of us it made a great difference.


    And today, after many years of being gone, i miss this part of neocron, I'm basically alone right now, none of my old clanmates or friends play neocron again, and i only know those few traders i talked to, the crazy dude at plaza chilling there with me while i poke people, or the ones who i helped at getting started in this great game. All those clan, the mean nothing to me, as i don't know anyone of them, only those jerks from a CA Clan ask for a TL115 poke home visit in the middle of the night who didn't even tip a single nc, and those guys whining about the LE every night in the help channel.

    So long story short, there should be a XP gain difference between LE'd and none LE'd players again.
    Note i say difference, not penalty, as we cant just simple put in back the penalty again, that would just alienate the PvE players and low levels.
    But we should increase the XP gain for non LE'd players.

    This would bring the following advantages:
    1. Encourages players to remove their LE to level faster.
    2. Reduce the grind for those who primarily want to play PvP and those who don't like xp grinding at all. (Remember, many of us already grinded hundreds of hours in the old days to cap your multiple chars, we know nearly every inch of neocron, remember how many people where online at the double xp weekend?)
    3. Increase the amount of none WoC'd PvP players. (Ill get to WoC and the stupid equipment gap it created in another post)
    4. The most important one, it might bring back Neocrons best features, something no other MMO achieved as good as Neocron did, bringing people together.



    For the PvE only players and lone wolves, nothing would change, they still get the XP they used to.


    Thanks for reading this.

    Kind regards,
    FullMetalFox
    (Some maybe remember me as "Greyfox" from Mars)

  2. #2
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    This guy nailed it.

    The reason my clan is here in NC is because we formed together with a few like-minded people in our faction and 10 years later a man who I now call one of my best friends (and a massive noob) recruited us to his clan. That went tits up and we started out on our own and met some other crazy people who I still keep in touch with over vent/facebook/etc.

    The reason we talk about the glory days of nc1 is because of the people we met then and this was all because we took out our LE's and got to know one another.


    P.s Fox if you want a new group of people to hang out with and get to know then you can find us at this address http://nc-regulators.co.uk
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  3. #3

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    I agree in that there is a huge impact the LE plays on the community.

    I agree that now-adays, it's shoot first, ask/talk later. With people keeping in their LE whilst leveling, and eventually pulling it out once they're finished leveling, it creates this element where people immediately think you're some hostile terrorist and they must kill you. Sure you can say that the reasons for factions means that people will shoot you because you're red to them.. but I also feel like factions are just a part of the politics in the game. If I see someone red to me, I shouldn't want to immediately pull out my weapon and start shooting them. This ultimately happens because people will say "well if you didn't want me to shoot/kill you, you should've kept your LE in. The use of an LE plays a huge role in shaping someones psyche of neocron. Imagine if a noob takes out his LE because he doesn't know the ups/downs of having it, I guarantee that he'd get shot down if he was leveling in a populated place (say regants) if he didn't have his LE in. Once again, factions play a role in this, but also just the current psyche of the game is "shoot first, make chatter later".

    I think the incentives for taking out the LE should be an increased XP rate, however I believe the incentive of taking out the LE is being able to use an extra implant (which in turn, enables you to use better equipment, therefore leveling up faster).

    Anyhow, I do not know the difficulties in implementing an XP boost for non-LE'd characters, and i'm not entirely sure if it would ever become a priority. What I would personally like to see though is a change in the philosophy/psyche of neocron, rather than some kind of progression of the story.

    TL;DR- I agree with everything FoxDF said above, I only hope the DEVs spend time reading and interpreting it.
    TITAN
    Gunshift - Pistol PE
    Mushy Snugglebites - Pistol Spy
    Ender Reznik - Heavy Tank
    Will McAvoy - PPU

  4. #4
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxDF View Post
    Hi there, havnt posted here for a long time.


    Now lets talk about the pro and contra of the current LE, after that ill get to what it used to be and its impact on the community itself.
    Sorry, but : NO. We should not talk again and again with allways the same arguments and in THIS actual stage of the very, very NEW populated server TITAN about the LE.

    TITAN was build up from the scratch, and every - i repeat : EVERY thing now at this time after short running of Titan is somewhat artificial, because almost 90-95% of the players are veterans. Give this server some time and you will see that things come to an equlibrium we are used to have. After the players cap their chars and have WOC most of them (nearly all, i guess) WILL remove their LE's.

    This is the 3.446.334 th thread about the LE and it's fatal consequences for this game, but it is nothing more than a panicked speech with a wall of text about issues which were 1000x discussed already.

    I think that the LE is a good thing to give players enough room and time for the decision ho he will play this game.

    Little add:

    "Reduce the grind for those who primarily want to play PvP and those who don't like xp grinding at all."

    Stop turning this game in a pvp-shooter-action-oriented "counterstrike with furnitures" - if you have no time to level up go and play shooter or planetside 2......

    Reed
    Last edited by DR REED; 06-02-13 at 21:17.

  5. #5
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Blah blah etc
    Read what he said. There is more truth in one of his posts than 1210 of yours.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  6. #6

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    Reed, when i read your post, i get the feeling that you did not read anything below the part you quoted.
    If you didnt, please do, this thread is not intended to be some "Me hates LE BASH BASH" kid rage quit or something, and doesnt contain anything like "remove the LE" or some other BS, and i would like to keep such dumb proposals out of this thread.

    Hmm, apparently you did read it, at least some of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DR REED View Post
    Little add:

    "Reduce the grind for those who primarily want to play PvP and those who don't like xp grinding at all."

    Stop turning this game in a pvp-shooter-action-oriented "counterstrike with furnitures" - if you have no time to level up go and play shooter or planetside 2......
    That is not my intention.
    My intention is to encourage players into forming bounds and clans, and reward them for taking the risk of getting killed while leveling.
    And at least i as a Veteran would be happy to level a bit faster, as i capped more than 10 chars in NC2 alone, which means i did a ton of grinding back then.
    Last edited by FoxDF; 06-02-13 at 21:39.

  7. #7

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    He's trolling, or asking for a Casual Farming game.

    LE with the old exp penality should be ok.

  8. #8
    Registered User Strife's Avatar
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    The only issue I have with LE's is their unrestricted, worry-free access to end-game content.

    I can appreciate the fact that this is a game, and feel that using it as a leveling tool is fine, to an extent. However, this is still a Cyberpunk, Post Apocalyptic game. Nothing about those words says safety guaranteed, free hands available to be held should you get scared.

    85% of your stat levels completed? Your LE pops out. You're a big boy now, best to make friends and use strength in numbers less you fall to the many perils that exist in this not so friendly world of ours.

  9. #9
    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    I can only support the ops suggestions! (nothing to add here)

  10. #10
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    With the OP too. PvE players generally aren't as fussed about how quickly they reach cap anyway. It's all about the journey there .

  11. #11
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strife View Post
    85% of your stat levels completed? Your LE pops out. You're a big boy now, best to make friends and use strength in numbers less you fall to the many perils that exist in this not so friendly world of ours.
    I would like the XP to stop at this level and only begin when the LE is removed manually. It makes it easier on those still wearing it as they still have the choice. No WOC/MC5/Other future to be added Endgame content(tm)
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  12. #12
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxDF View Post
    Reed, when i read your post, i get the feeling that you did not read anything below the part you quoted.
    If you didnt, please do, this thread is not intended to be some "Me hates LE BASH BASH" kid rage quit or something, and doesnt contain anything like "remove the LE" or some other BS, and i would like to keep such dumb proposals out of this thread.

    Hmm, apparently you did read it, at least some of it.


    That is not my intention.
    My intention is to encourage players into forming bounds and clans, and reward them for taking the risk of getting killed while leveling.
    And at least i as a Veteran would be happy to level a bit faster, as i capped more than 10 chars in NC2 alone, which means i did a ton of grinding back then.
    It's always the same for some guys here: Why do you think i didn't read the post ? No need for arrogant phrases like these from William Antrim...

    Your sight is the goodguy one, my time on Mars was dominated by cheater/ganker clans and players, using every cheat and hack they could get, editing every single client based file which gave advantages. Besides that of course normal and friendly groups and clans were gathering and this was possible even with this construct of LE.

    Your first part is reading somewhat like a glossing view of Neocron (i am not trolling ), and then come your conclusions, which are not matching the former part ot your post:

    - enhancing the XP gain for non-LE
    - increasing the non-LE-pvp-faction (but how ?^^)
    - you are encouraging players to form/ joi n clans (but why ? is this necessary ?)

    I am not trolling or affronting you, i am only tired to read again and again how LE is runing the game. As i said let people choose how they wish to play the game. If you makes things worser for one of the groups this is not let them choose.

    And to make this clear: I ever have (and will) oppose intentions to transform this very nice MMO+roleplay game into a cheap copy of 3rd person pvp trash. Neocron is a very unique composition and it would be great pity if this direction is chosen.

    Make good balancing, add (not remove !) content, add comlexity (not simplifications!), make game fair (remove exploits & hacks, ban cheater) - this makes sense and this is what the game is lacking at most.

    Reed

  13. #13
    Registered User Disturbed21's Avatar
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    I believe they already stated they have no plans to change the LE, so the complete forced removal is probably never going to happen. They want the removal to be a choice made by the player.

    That being said, kudos to the OP for bringing up the discussion in a well-thought out manner! How difficult would it be to change the settings in certain zones? MC5 for example, could that zone deactivate the LE? I believe this was brought up in a previous thread and it was something I thought was a good idea. Though, that does only address one of the concerns (access to end-game content without risk) but that could be incentive enough to have those on the fence pop it out early....I mean, why leave it in if MC5, DoY Tunnels or whatever else, the LE is deactivated anyway? Thoughts?

  14. #14

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    I completely agree with the main idea here.

    Reason there is so many LE threads made by different people is that people want changes, simply enough.


    I think the LE was mainly in game design to make it marketable back when it was pay to play.
    I bet you the original designers didnt want it but were asked to by the marketing ppl.


    In a game were we have redlight district with neon nudes, bukkake girl in OZ, every creature out there wants to kill you, and a city ran by crime syndicates, I think pvp was indeed intended from the start, and for everyone.

  15. #15
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    i suspect this isnt the last anti-LE-thread. though most players are perfectly fine with the current situation, there's a vocal few who refuse to understand there's different playing styles, and who wont stop whining (sorry, but that's what it is) about other people having opinions on their own.
    removing the LE already has huge advantages - you get a critical 4th brainslot and access to PvP, the most valued endgame content - so remove it and have fun playing your way. really.

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