[R#179] Runspeed Discussion

[Dropout]

NO... FUCKING.. PARA!!!

Para WAS gamebreaking! It pretty much too ALL the fun out of OPfighting.
Removing Para was pretty much the ONLY REALLY good thing 2.2 did!

[Dropout]

NO... FUCKING.. PARA!!!

Para WAS gamebreaking! It pretty much too ALL the fun out of OPfighting.
Removing Para was pretty much the ONLY REALLY good thing 2.2 did!

... took*

[Deus Ex Machina]

NO... FUCKING.. PARA!!!

Para WAS gamebreaking! It pretty much too ALL the fun out of OPfighting.
Removing Para was pretty much the ONLY REALLY good thing 2.2 did!

I can live very well without Parashock, though i have to say the most problematic thing were that

1) You could be nailed to the ground, or nearly that, thats different from being a little slower. VERY different.
2) The shock also affected your aiming very much, not only your movement speed.

[If Shock is not made useful again I'd like to have the weapons that shocked made into decent damage weapons. I just like the white Energy pulse (and white swirly) of the Shock weapons, If it did damage I would use it :-)]

[Sorin]

So on one of my pure tradeskillers I've got 80 ATL and 80 AGL, since they've got nothing better to do with their points in those areas. Yet there were people in P1 last night tearing ass right passed me as if I were standing still....that's ridiculous. How the hell many points do they have in ATL/AGL? How gimped are they? When did they rework runspeed?

I remember back in the day 80/80 would actually have been blazing balls-to-the-wall fast. Anything more than that was both gimping you in some fashion and was not of much use anyway due to the softcap and very heavily diminishing returns hitting somewhere around 70/70.

I don't see how PvPers can hit anyone these days without slow-motion vision built into their eyes.

[Dropout]

So on one of my pure tradeskillers I've got 80 ATL and 80 AGL, since they've got nothing better to do with their points in those areas. Yet there were people in P1 last night tearing ass right passed me as if I were standing still....that's ridiculous. How the hell many points do they have in ATL/AGL? How gimped are they? When did they rework runspeed?

I remember back in the day 80/80 would actually have been blazing balls-to-the-wall fast. Anything more than that was both gimping you in some fashion and was not of much use anyway due to the softcap and very heavily diminishing returns hitting somewhere around 70/70.

I don't see how PvPers can hit anyone these days without slow-motion vision built into their eyes.

Depends a lot on classes.. Spies usually have 80-100 ATL / 160 AGL (drugged), and tanks 100-150 ATL /160-190 AGL (also drugged).
NC 2.2 removed the speed cap.

[Sorin]

Depends a lot on classes.. Spies usually have 80-100 ATL / 160 AGL (drugged), and tanks 100-150 ATL /160-190 AGL (also drugged).
NC 2.2 removed the speed cap.

But on test server, even capped with as much as possible in weaponskill and tc, and only 40-50 base in agl, with self buff, rare implants, etc. my stats on rares with all 120 are still garbage; so to pump well over 100 into agl...?

[Dropout]

But on test server, even capped with as much as possible in weaponskill and tc, and only 40-50 base in agl, with self buff, rare implants, etc. my stats on rares with all 120 are still garbage; so to pump well over 100 into agl...?

As long as you cap (or get close to cap) Aim% all is good tbh. You cant cap DMG%, so dont even bother.
With 200+ weaponskill you have enough to do a lot of damage (As long as your using one of the few viable weapons).
Personally I only spec for 50 base TC, unless on a tank, where Im HAVE to spec more, to use my weapons. Hell, I cant even use my TC weapons without Redflash.

[Doc Holliday]

[If Shock is not made useful again I'd like to have the weapons that shocked made into decent damage weapons. I just like the white Energy pulse (and white swirly) of the Shock weapons, If it did damage I would use it :-)]

agreed. It would be nice to see them more viable. Even if they were purely energy damage. What i would personally like to see (if implemented correctly) is a potential mix damage type like the frostration. 50/50 before ammo mod or something.

Dont bring back blue glue. Dont even think about suggesting it. It was lame and ruined good fights. being able to stand and shoot someone who can barely turn to return fire was not skillful. It would also make the game PPU-acron im sure as it would be them that got it. And dont go oh ok well give it the apu then I dont wanna be the apu in a team where my sole job is to glue people to stuff.

[BlueRobot]

I did some testing with movement after the patch, since i felt pvp was much harder and I sucked way more vs people i would usually stomp with ease. So after a tip from someone i lomed all my resist instead of like 20 base in enr and put them in atl, which skyrocketed my PvP viability, resulting in me stomping those guys again. Its ridiculous, some people dont manage to get more than one hit off before having to run.

Theres one aspect of that, which i like and one which i dislike.

The one I like is, that I see potential for 1on1s and PvP outside of P2 and OPs become more oldschool. PvP reminds me more of back when you could fight outside MB in the J sectors and would meet lots of different enemies, like x-bow PEs, assault rifle PEs, Hybrid Monks, CS Tanks, Xbow or Slasher spies. This variability benefitted from fights lasting longer and being more skill based, since you had to know your setup well, and be good with the weapons/mechanics you used. Before the patch you just had to get the highest DMG you could get while still being good at clipping, since it was so easy to hit with the bad netcode.

The thing i dislike very much is, that you basically have to put all your points into agl/atl now because speed=win and skill only comes after that. Although i have to say I only tested this on my spy, and it is unclear to me how some tanks get to the runspeed they have.

My suggestion is: !!! _Maybe_ !!! tone runspeed down, but not all the way, to where aim doesnt matter anymore unless you absolutely suck at it.
And add a (soft)cap to runspeed, that is much easier reached than what you have to setup now. Then put that shit on the server and see what happens.
Noone can predict all the effects of a working netcode and all the free points available for everyone after you dont have to put them all into atl/agl anymore. Then after a while, when the players have figured out what is the overpowered new setup and abuse it to its limits, you can start nerfing it one after another, since you have a good foundation for rebalancing now.

[Dribble Joy]

Also in favour of a soft cap. Probably around the 80/80 mark or wherever the old hard cap was. I'd also say make it based on agl+ath as a total, rather than having a soft cap on both. This would mean you could have a high agl or high ath wihtout being forced to spec in both.

[Haggis.at]

For the freezers: As you all don't like the idea - how about making them PvE only? I am thinking about possibilities to make high end encounters more fun instead of "hit- die - rez - hit - die - rez" like it used to be (and I bet it still is)...
And for the record: I NEVER even thought about freezers being as bad as when they were invented...

[Torg]

yes, runspeed needs to be readjusted. basic speed is ok, but top speed needs to be soft-capped or slowed by a lower parameter. like this:

if 100 DEX + 100 ATL + 100 AGL (= 300 runpoints) will make you run 33m/s while 0 DEX + 0 ATL + 0 AGL (= 0) make you run 3 m/s, there's a base runspeed value of 3 and a parameter of 0.1. (10 ATH, AGL + DEX = 30 would make you run 3 + 30*0.1 = 6 m/s in my totally made up example)

if we change our little parameter from 0.1 (1:10) to 0.05 (1:20), a newb would still run 3 m/s, the lowlevel 3 + 30*0.05= 4.5 m/s and our true neocronian athlete 3 + 300*0.5= 18 m/s.

we would need to check this out on Vedeena.

[BlueRobot]

What you re saying, is just keep the current system and halve the speed you get from points in atl/agl/dex. I also dont think currently runspeed calculation works like that, since most skills become less effective the more points you already have in them.

Other then that, I dont think, just making people slower would help with anything. You would still have to put a ton of skillpoints into atl/agl to reach top speed.

[Dropout]

Im actually not completely against a SOFT cap (!!!), as long as people still have the ability to become very fast..
The current state of pvp is kinda ridiculous - I actually have to concentrate, to be able to hit people now!
I miss pvp'ing with my feet up on the table!

[nabbl]

PvP is kind of redicilous. Decent fights are only possible against enemies which doesn't spend every single point on athletics and agility.