[R#179] Runspeed Discussion

[Torg]

i bet any speed change will come in small, cautious steps.

[demonssword]

Personally i am fine with people running as fast as they like, so long as the server is keeping up with them.
I havent pvp'd since comming back from the game outside of a bit of neofrag. However in checking out PVP by watching from buildings it seems its all about run speed. Having seen a few specs of people on nskill it seems about 95% speed with maybe a drug or 2 on as well sends your character in to a "skip mode" what makes their character run around a bit then suddenly slow for a second then run 3X the speed they normally can for a couple of seconds as the server seems to be catching up with them.

This of course makes targetting them with weapons that need to lock on very very hard, and with APU spells having more dmg based on how locked on you are it means apus seem to be a rare thing with h-c tanks, some rifle spys and loads of ppus as the only things that show up in op wars.

So in essence if they want a soft cap i am happy with that, but those who go beyond it of course could reduce the ammount of speed lost by having their weapons out.
Or maybe passed a certain point you dont gain as much speed as before this point, so diminished returns.

The trouble with either option is setting a value that doesnt make it to easy to hit people and then high con resists become king and apus and spys become worse because they are now easier to hit and have no resists for when they do.

The option i will throw out there is maybe have aiming get worse the faster you are moving.
So we have a person who on nskill is at say 70 speed. Stationary his target ret is say 3cm wide as is for everyone. if walking it goes up to 3.5cm, if running 4.5cm or whatever the normal is.
Now a person with 90 speed stationary is 3cm, walking maybe 3.7cm, running 5.5cm.
These are random numbers and the speed in which the target lock on closes would of course be down to your aiming skill and staying on the target, but with a larger circle it means that you would need longer to fully lock on to the target.

Again though with the above it could end up penalising people for being fast and people would look for sweet spots on the speed to mean they didnt get as much penalty. So the negative would need to happen only after X ammount of speed rather than vs any movement.

[Netphreak]

I swear this thread is going crazy and people are trying to over complicate things. I don't like quoting myself but I think people need reminded of the simple option that appeared to work in nc1 & 2.

Soft cap on runspeed and have weapons affecting your run speed properly when drawn like they used to. Heavy weapons having the highest speed reduction when drawn and melee and spells the least.

From greatest to least speed reduction while drawn would be something like:
Heavy > Rifle > Pistol > Melee > Spells (then maybe tools and the like)

Please bear in mind that, we also really need weapon damage balanced so that resists and armor work as they should.

[Arista Barret]

I hAve alot of notes on setups. I also know the best fighting setups. point being, runspeed to compliment your style is the first choice you make. then you choose the best resists you feel comfortable with. All that after choosing a gun i should have said. The current patch changed runspeed to hyperspeed. the balance before was very well done even after looking last things like the dissy. Change runspeed because the pvp sucks now. you are either fast as fuck and top 5% aim...or you get wasted. not exactly a good environment for building pvp.

[L0KI]

I have a Fraps video of a fight between me and a very good PvPer (melee tank vs HC tank) which lasted somewhere around 20 minutes. During the fight, he had to go buy more ammo (twice I think), and I had to fill my melee tanks QB up with stam boosters three times. We were both so incredibly fast that we couldn't hit one another. We ended up getting bored and calling it a day when both of our second lot of drugs wore off.

Even if I managed to land 6-8 consecutive swings with the hurler knuckles and he landed a couple of shots with the ionic cannon, a simple burst of the heal tool and a medikit and you're outhealing any incoming damage as long as you keep the stamina up, and keep moving.

As it stands right now, speed is everything. Speed should not be THE most important factor in determining the result of a fight, but it really is. I don't even see slower players as a threat any more. Even if a person's aim is superb they're going to struggle hitting a melee tank with a runspeed of 102 (NSkill v2) who knows how to move erratically. Even if they do the impossible and land 50% of their shots, their slower speed will mean I land more like 80% of my shots, and they die.

I'd love to see what a true runspeed softcap does to the PvP dynamics.

[Arista Barret]

Edited by Falk.exe

[Kame]

The thing is that the dynamics of PVP gameplay has drastically changed, since the current runspeed was implemented.

We went from a slow-moving game, where aiming was more important than dodging, to a fast-moving game, were dodging is more important than anythig else.

The PVP gameplay needs to be streamlined and emphasis needs to be put in resists again. The PVP gameplay shouldnt change in such huge leaps.

[Arista Barret]

The thing is that the dynamics of PVP gameplay has drastically changed, since the current runspeed was implemented.

We went from a slow-moving game, where aiming was more important than dodging, to a fast-moving game, were dodging is more important than anythig else.

The PVP gameplay needs to be streamlined and emphasis needs to be put in resists again. The PVP gameplay shouldnt change in such huge leaps.

Why is this not completely fkn obvious to the devs? What's the point of this thread? To give us something to talk about while they work on changes they are already making?

[wargolem]

I have a Fraps video of a fight between me and a very good PvPer (melee tank vs HC tank) which lasted somewhere around 20 minutes. During the fight, he had to go buy more ammo (twice I think),

Then neither of you are good pvpers

sorry dude to allow reality to crash around you, but to say something like that with no backup and then allow 20 min fight to happen is a joke. It's almost as bad as Arrista barret claiming he knows all the best setups.

forcing soft caps is not something I would like to see in this game, i think it does make the game easier and appeal to more people but I think the issue is that It also blurrs the line between good bad and average players that little bit more.

The changes suggested on brainport I would argue are so much better than people asking for a runspeed cap, Particulary people looking at ways of re-implementing para and making freeze weapons useful, obviously tuned down from what it was. That, in my opinion is the best option for the future.

[Arista Barret]

Then neither of you are good pvpers

sorry dude to allow reality to crash around you, but to say something like that with no backup and then allow 20 min fight to happen is a joke. It's almost as bad as Arrista barret claiming he knows all the best setups.

forcing soft caps is not something I would like to see in this game, i think it does make the game easier and appeal to more people but I think the issue is that It also blurrs the line between good bad and average players that little bit more.

The changes suggested on brainport I would argue are so much better than people asking for a runspeed cap, Particulary people looking at ways of re-implementing para and making freeze weapons useful, obviously tuned down from what it was. That, in my opinion is the best option for the future.

the line should be blurred. the distinction between good player and better fighter should not be so far apart. When i say i know the best setups...i am referring to the setups used by the guys who walk into fight zones and cannot be ran off. they are the best fighting the best. i do have their setups written down. the only reason to hide your awesome setup is because you are haxx imo.

[Dropout]

Then neither of you are good pvpers

sorry dude to allow reality to crash around you, but to say something like that with no backup and then allow 20 min fight to happen is a joke. It's almost as bad as Arrista barret claiming he knows all the best setups.

Sorry Loki, But I have to agree with Wargolem here.. A one vs. one should NEVER last 20 mins..
"Max-speed" setup vs. "Max-speed" setup (which are the fights, that last the longest usually) should at the VERY most last 3-4 mins.

[Chuck Norris]

Cap run speed imo, different per class? CHEATERS are way to powerful with insane run speed

[Dropout]

Snip

I would edit that message if I were you..

Anyways.. No, Im very much against a hard-cap, but I think a soft-cap would be a very good idea.

[Chuck Norris]

I would edit that message if I were you..

Anyways.. No, Im very much against a hard-cap, but I think a soft-cap would be a very good idea.

Why its true?

[Dropout]

Why its true?

Perhaps. But it is still not something to talk about on the forum..
Not only is it not allowed, it is also bad for the game (newbs seeing threads like this, can quickly start to fear the worst).


Mod; feel free to delete this reply if needed.