[R#179/#180] Patch Discussion

[Netphreak]

tbh, the incredible runspeed is an highly underestaminated mistake did in 2007. We should find a way back to (CON SETUP > RUNSPEED), to become the game more NC1/2'ish again

This. ^

I'm not saying reduce run speed to the point there's no point/advantage speccing more run speed that someone else, but it should be more balanced (flatter run speed increase curve per points spent or something), so that speccing CON is also viable.

For Spies and APU's runspeed was usually always more important than CON, but that's because they are meant to be squishie.

this!

Same with this Weapon Lore thing... There once was a cap on 249% weapon precision. Aiming was just "capped". That meant that everybody was at the same level of his aiming skill. ...
...

The whole aiming thing seems strange since NC1/NC2. I would prefer that people can hit the cap again and then it is down to other factors how well they fair. Their aiming skill, damage, movements, weapon characteristics etc, etc...

[ancient]

I don't think run speed should be capped, If at all a soft cap, but I still think it should be left as it is with no cap. I like the fast paced combat it brings a challenge into the game, but there needs to be a way of letting pe's move faster. If I play PE then I just feel like a snale, even with drugs!

Props on the patch, gonna give it a test now (hope i've not lost any items! :/)

[nabbl]

I don't think run speed should be capped, If at all a soft cap, but I still think it should be left as it is with no cap. I like the fast paced combat it brings a challenge into the game, but there needs to be a way of letting pe's move faster. If I play PE then I just feel like a snale, even with drugs!

Well, you just found a part of the problem why we only see Tanks and Spies (as damagedealers) in OP-Fights. These are the only classes which are able to get a really high runspeed.

[Ivan Eres]

Well, you just found a part of the problem why we only see Tanks and Spies (as damagedealers) in OP-Fights.

I thought the reason for this is that APUs are not viable at the moment and that the PE is an allrounder who cannot compete with specialized classes in OP fights.

[Nidhogg]

Please restrict your discussion to the patch only. We know we have some issues to solve in #179 (there are some large back-end changes) so we need to be able to focus on that. Thanks.

[Mokoi]

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
TITAN in Test Drive Mode until further notice.

[nabbl]

I thought the reason for this is that APUs are not viable at the moment and that the PE is an allrounder who cannot compete with specialized classes in OP fights.

I said: "A part of the problem". I didn't say it is the only problem.
And yes. The PE is an Allrounder which means he cannot put enough points on Athletics and Agility to be viable. In addition to the fact that his PAs (except the normal ones) have mali on Athletics or Agility. But he needs his PAs to reach the higher weapons. Another part of the problem.

Balancing is not that easy at it seems. If you change one thing there are a hundred other things which have to be thought through again. The whole balancing relies on item stats (armor, implants, weapons), calculations (resist, weaponry, runspeed), classes (roles, base stats) and player skill. You have to take everything into account.

For example the runspeed: You want to lower the runspeed because the Netcode of Neocron and its leveldesign makes it nearly impossible to maintain such a high runspeed?

Then you have to have a look at the aiming ability for example. When people are slower, will aiming be to easy? What about the resists? Will fights last long enough to be still entertaining? At what point should the skills (agility, athletics) be capping runspeed? Which classes should have a high base-runspeed?

[Nixon]

It'll be hard to even do community based QA like this.

[Powerpunsh]

Vote for Runspeedcap on 0.86.
If a rework of drugs/implants/PA's will come we can discuss about removeing them. Thats the only possibility i see so far.

[L0KI]

I noticed some issues earlier when in Regeants regarding mob clipping. Sluggers were taking the most direct root to me on occasions; totally ignoring the walls.

It's like my client was catching up with the server, and warping them through the walls.

I should note, this was with a stable 62 ping.

[hatmankh]

[...]We will evaluate the chances of fixing these issues in a timely manner and will then decide wether a rollback or a hotfix is to be applied.
In any case, the database will be restored to the state of February 4th (pre patch) after the evaluation period has ended.[...]

This seems to be a contradiction, you will evaluate the chances of fixing the issues to see if there needs to be a rollback or not, then you say there definitely will be a rollback to February 4th at the end.. I'm confused, there might be a rollback to even earlier than the 4th? Is that what needs to be evaluated?

[Dropout]

Same with this Weapon Lore thing... There once was a cap on 249% weapon precision. Aiming was just "capped". That meant that everybody was at the same level of his aiming skill.

There still is. Although its at 250%.
On tanks it does require a bit of "work" to reach, but it is quite easy to reach on spies.

[nabbl]

There still is. Although its at 250%.
On tanks it does require a bit of "work" to reach, but it is quite easy to reach on spies.

Point taken. But don't you think that aiming is too easy with 250%?
My Spy has it and closing the reticle isn't much of a problem. But maybe this is has to be evaluated when the runspeed gets lowered.

[Ivan Eres]

This seems to be a contradiction, you will evaluate the chances of fixing the issues to see if there needs to be a rollback or not, then you say there definitely will be a rollback to February 4th at the end.. I'm confused, there might be a rollback to even earlier than the 4th? Is that what needs to be evaluated?

1.) There will definitely be a rollback of the database to pre-patch status no matter what, because of the bugs (lost items etc.)
2.) If the patch #179 can be hotfixed it will be kept, if not it's gonna be rollbacked too

[Nidhogg]

I'll start editing if you don't take this elsewhere. I've not been on an edit spree in literally years so I'm itching to re-live old times.