additional short-term improvements for neocron

[Torg]

Apart from resurrecting Neocron lore and rebalancing PvE (check either threads here on brainport) we could greatly improve both PvE and PvP in this best MMO in the world by the following changes:

- remove dmg bonus for epic guns, woc guns (keep tc dmg bonus to balance the "loss" of agility)
- remove "godlike-status" for epic and jones items. guns need to wear out just as non-epics, regain vehicles for lost of credits only
- remove mainskill boni from PAs (str,dex,psi), lower combat boni (hc/pc/rc/aou/ppu/mc), make PAs heavier (weight)

this would result in a more balanced PvP (and PvE) situation, more weapons to be used in fights, more cooperative play.

[Dropout]

How about we balance the WEAPONS first? Thats where the balance is completely off, not anywhere else. A Dissy with only 160 RC will still kill you in seconds (unbuffed ofc).

[William Antrim]

I'm gonna say no to the EPIC status suggestion because you can only do the epic once per char. I do not want to reroll just because I wore out my TT epic laser.


I am going to say no to the other suggestions because you are effectively nerfing the shit out of pes with those suggestions. I say this because the OP clearly hasnt thought through his suggestions and has not said HOW these changes would make the game better other than to make people have lower resists (more TRA for the heavier PA), lower damage output (lowered PC/RC etc).

All this would do at an absolute reach is make pvp last longer. It would not make it any better. You have not stated any facts in the OP just listed some vaguely generic suggestions which do not really improve anything.

So based on my initial interpretation and the obvious flaws in the suggestion, and the fact that OP doesnt seem to have thought out his proposals I will have to disagree.

[Netphreak]

So let me get this right...

Apart from resurrecting Neocron lore and rebalancing PvE (check either threads here on brainport) we could greatly improve both PvE and PvP in this best MMO in the world by the following changes:

- remove dmg bonus for epic guns, woc guns (keep tc dmg bonus to balance the "loss" of agility)

I thought epic guns only do more damage compared to most weapons due to their artifact quality.
Also by remove the damage bonus for WoC guns, do you mean remove all their damage bonus or make it the same as rares.
Your point about T-C damage bonus will also do nothing for all the low tech WoC pistols and rifles

- remove "godlike-status" for epic and jones items. guns need to wear out just as non-epics, regain vehicles for lost of credits only

So am I right in thinking that you want to make it that, items that you can only acquire once per character will end up as useless and unable to be replaced?

- remove mainskill boni from PAs (str,dex,psi), lower combat boni (hc/pc/rc/aou/ppu/mc), make PAs heavier (weight)

Removing the bonuses and reasoning behind having and using PA's in the first place?

this would result in a more balanced PvP (and PvE) situation, more weapons to be used in fights, more cooperative play.

Your logic seems flawed.

[Kame]

Thread starter's ideas are garbage.

[William Antrim]

I wish that I could fart and post it on the internet as thats all this thread seems to be. Hot air.

[Jodo]

Not a fan of these ideas at all. Epic status should mean something special, not disposable. The only issue I have with Epic and Jones items is that some are invaluable and some are just crap. I'd like to see them balanced a little more.

PA should absolutely give a bonus to the main stat requirement. It's not just armour, it's a body enhancement suit. Don't take the Power out of "Power Armour".

[Doc Holliday]

Nerf PAs and we are all gonna be drug fucked whores lying around in p2 too spaced out to do anything because we have to drug up to use half the guns. Oh sorry im talking about the pe. Kicking me when im down is one thing but this is akin to peeing on me when im unconscious.

Sorry but im in agreement with everyone else here. These ideas are garbage. They are all nerfs in disguise and they follow no sane logic as to why they should be nerfed.

Besides PVP and PVE are two different animals. Its like comparing cats and dogs. To balance PVE you focus (imo) on the mobs etc and their abilities vs runners. For PVP you focus on what the runners abilities are or hypothetically could be.


Please Torg put some more thought in to making a thread like this.

[Torg]

Damage balance (not just weapon balance) seems distorted, i think we can agree on that. It has been widely reported that WOC weapons are too strong, and that the Disruptor rifle is the envy of all non-disruptive chars. To counter this, we could either nerf the AK and Dissy specifically, or look at the whole range of weapons and influencing items. In order to bring the whole field of midrange rare guns back to use, we need to adjust damage output. Removing woc, epic and rare boni (and thus relying on TL alone for damage calculation) may be one way to achieve this, reducing item boni from PAs and implants may be another. So?

On indestructable epic items: Did you ever rep a gun to zero? And if so, did it take weeks, or years? And if your beloved TT epic rifle is repaired down to nothing after so many successful hunting trips, wouldn't it be the right time to put it to rest on the mantelshelf? (or make a char and do the TT epic run once more)

The PE is another problem that needs to be adressed separately.

Lets compare the current situation with early NC1: There were no PAs except for Tanks, there was noc WOC, no dissy, no silent Hunter, no stealth tool. Playing a combat spy didnt make real sense. People were playing anyways. So how can we get to a balance between now and then? By taking away items? Or by adjusting in small steps? We need to be aware of the fact that balance can't be achieved ba adding, and adding more - you'll have to reduce some as well.

Now i'm waiting for your positive input.

[Netphreak]

Damage balance (not just weapon balance) seems distorted, i think we can agree on that. It has been widely reported that WOC weapons are too strong, and that the Disruptor rifle is the envy of all non-disruptive chars. To counter this, we could either nerf the AK and Dissy specifically, or look at the whole range of weapons and influencing items. In order to bring the whole field of midrange rare guns back to use, we need to adjust damage output. Removing woc, epic and rare boni (and thus relying on TL alone for damage calculation) may be one way to achieve this, reducing item boni from PAs and implants may be another. So?

On indestructable epic items: Did you ever rep a gun to zero? And if so, did it take weeks, or years? And if your beloved TT epic rifle is repaired down to nothing after so many successful hunting trips, wouldn't it be the right time to put it to rest on the mantelshelf? (or make a char and do the TT epic run once more)

The PE is another problem that needs to be adressed separately.

Lets compare the current situation with early NC1: There were no PAs except for Tanks, there was noc WOC, no dissy, no silent Hunter, no stealth tool. Playing a combat spy didnt make real sense. People were playing anyways. So how can we get to a balance between now and then? By taking away items? Or by adjusting in small steps? We need to be aware of the fact that balance can't be achieved ba adding, and adding more - you'll have to reduce some as well.

Now i'm waiting for your positive input.

I gave you positive input, like when I pointed out that your comment about

(keep tc dmg bonus to balance the "loss" of agility)

especially in the case of rifles would not work as t-c has no affect on a low tech rifle such as the AK.

I played a rifle spy in NC1 and it was almost worthless, due to piss poor defence (compared to a PE) and the high end rifles Healing Light (damage was terrible) and First Love (usually missed 2 shots out of a burst, therefore didn't get the burst bonus either) weren't worth using.
In NC1 there was no real reason to play a rifle spy compared to a Paineaser or RoG using PE. They had better much defenses, they capped their weapons.
Pistols were a bit different, because the RoLH was awesome but then so was a Libby. So once again no real reason to pick a spy over a PE.

Stealth isn't really an issue if there is a tank or apu involved due to AoE.

Weapon damage is very much skewed, and I think the curve needs flattening and based of TL and weapon type. I the rare and woc damage bonuses should be the same and that bonus amount should possibly be reduced.

Also, don't forget that mob damage is also equally broken and needs balanced/toned down as well. E.g. should a rank 70/70 mob be able to 2 or 3 shot a capped buffed spy?

[Jodo]

wouldn't it be the right time to put it to rest on the mantelshelf? (or make a char and do the TT epic run once more)

No. Absolutely not. Re-rolling character is a decision to be made IF I ever get bored enough to do it again, not because I need a new gun. Seriously, this is an atrocious idea, with even worse reasoning behind it.

[Torg]

Weapon damage is very much skewed, and I think the curve needs flattening and based of TL and weapon type. I the rare and woc damage bonuses should be the same and that bonus amount should possibly be reduced.

i feel were about to get to a common position.

[Dropout]

The current weapon balance is so much off, that this wont cut it.. Every single weapon needs to be looked at.
And there needs to be some gain to using a lower TL weapon and having better defence.. Currently there isnt, since defence Means so Little atm compared to damage output.
I dont think I have used a resistor implant for at LEAST 2 years tbh..

[William Antrim]

You're just rehashing old threads and trying to claim you came up with a new idea. You want to balance the disruptor by nerfing it and the AK?

Do you have a clue what youre saying?

[Torg]

. Currently there isnt, since defence Means so Little atm compared to damage output.

true, speed still is another problem that needs to be looked at.