1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    So many skewed "facts" in here that are not at all facts, seems like people/grievers are just pissed they have no one to grief during their limited amount of play time.
    That thing you just leapt to? That's a false conclusion. I don't know that I see an evidence of what you're saying in the thread at all. Yes, a lot of folks like it when the LE was essentially forced out, but it's false equivalency to equate that with wanting to grief players. In fact, more than one person here has pointed out that LE players can currently grief with impunity by killing the NPCs others need to finish their quests, which seems to imply the opposite of what you said is true.

    but you know what, I like Chuck Norris. His tears cure cancer and that means a lot to me. It'd be better if he ever actually cried, but still, his heart is in the right, unpunchable, place. So let's talk a little bit about what you said without just discounting it as wrong with no evidence.

    You seem to believe that if more people pulled out their LE, they would all somehow grief the little guy. I can understand that -- that *did* happen back in NC1. That's a valid concern. That said, why assume that a request to reinstate the XP bonus for non-le'd players means we want all players to pull their LEs? Yes, perhaps in an effort to level more quickly more people will pull their LEs, but that's *not* the goal of the request as I understand it. As I understand it, the point is to give people who take on more risk a better reward to recognize that. How does that hurt a player with an LE in at all?

    It's a simple request really. filter out all the side talk and focus on that: it's not going to make the game worse for Non-LEd players in any way, so why oppose it?
    - BetMonty
    "He who has the money has the authority,
    and respect to the man with the Uzi." - Bradley

  2. #32
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    ahh yes the gank!
    That is a false conclusion.

    Lower level PvP isn't always gank squads and border hopping, that is merely one potential expression, and one that can be effectively policed by the community and by code-enforced 'no-fire' zones at that.

    For example, since Neocron is *not* normalized for rank (like other mmos, WoW/EQ etc. are) a 'gank squad' of lower level runners can ork/zerg a high level and win.

    Likewise, lowbies can fight lowbies and have an even match, and mismatched builds can have interesting fight/flight experiences (running away is valid!)

    please try to contribute, rather than troll, thanks.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetMonty View Post
    That thing you just leapt to? That's a false conclusion. I don't know that I see an evidence of what you're saying in the thread at all. Yes, a lot of folks like it when the LE was essentially forced out, but it's false equivalency to equate that with wanting to grief players. In fact, more than one person here has pointed out that LE players can currently grief with impunity by killing the NPCs others need to finish their quests, which seems to imply the opposite of what you said is true.

    but you know what, I like Chuck Norris. His tears cure cancer and that means a lot to me. It'd be better if he ever actually cried, but still, his heart is in the right, unpunchable, place. So let's talk a little bit about what you said without just discounting it as wrong with no evidence.

    You seem to believe that if more people pulled out their LE, they would all somehow grief the little guy. I can understand that -- that *did* happen back in NC1. That's a valid concern. That said, why assume that a request to reinstate the XP bonus for non-le'd players means we want all players to pull their LEs? Yes, perhaps in an effort to level more quickly more people will pull their LEs, but that's *not* the goal of the request as I understand it. As I understand it, the point is to give people who take on more risk a better reward to recognize that. How does that hurt a player with an LE in at all?

    It's a simple request really. filter out all the side talk and focus on that: it's not going to make the game worse for Non-LEd players in any way, so why oppose it?
    There are more then one npc to kill for epics this is the kind of BS im talking about.........

    Incentive's for removing LE before Cap for what reason, just why? Im still not understanding why it is insisted that people must pull their LE before cap'ing?

    This game is so top heavy since nc2 and addition of WoC the hierarchy of weaponry is "so called balance" is towards the top end not the lower end... some non rares make more damage then rares now days

    There are things repercussions for having an LE, like lower damage, combat rank, the inability to join a clan and more

    Then people go back to using NC1 analogies well this isnt nc1 not even close, so please check those moot points at the door.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dope View Post
    That is a false conclusion.

    Lower level PvP isn't always gank squads and border hopping, that is merely one potential expression, and one that can be effectively policed by the community and by code-enforced 'no-fire' zones at that.

    For example, since Neocron is *not* normalized for rank (like other mmos, WoW/EQ etc. are) a 'gank squad' of lower level runners can ork/zerg a high level and win.

    Likewise, lowbies can fight lowbies and have an even match, and mismatched builds can have interesting fight/flight experiences (running away is valid!)

    please try to contribute, rather than troll, thanks.
    Any cap'd AoE class can clear rooms of noobs with their weapons, the noobs wont stand a chance ive seen it before, so i dont think a pack of noobs will take down a seasoned fine tuned cookie cutter build ganker/pvp'r

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naim View Post
    The people who terrorized him are the same who are unhappy that there are so many LE-players and do not bring together the fact that they increase the incentive to keep the LE and never put it out.
    In Germany there's a saying that goes "The cat bites its own tail" :-)

    The interesting thing is that all hardcore PvP players I saw keep their LE in until they're near cap or even WoC and have the best equip. Then they remove it and moan about nobody being there to gank and kill. It's an attitude problem I guess.

    I will try the following: The next time one of my six non LE leveling chars will be killed three times like yesterday at MB by a rare equipped 63 spy I will call for support on the alliance channel. Let's see what happens.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivan eres View Post
    in germany there's a saying that goes "the cat bites its own tail" :-)

    the interesting thing is that all hardcore pvp players i saw keep their le in until they're near cap or even woc and have the best equip. Then they remove it and moan about nobody being there to gank and kill.
    qftmft!!!!!!!!!

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    How many of you guys played NC1?

    When noone had LE's in and someone shouted on help that they had been pked literally half the server turned up for a fight. People would actively go out and "police" levelling zones. Clans meant a LOT more back then and everyone joined a good one because they knew they would get looked after by their mates.
    Right! For example hunting used to be a clan-event in the old days, because you needed the security of your clan mates. The Game forced the alliance with other players! But that also meant the sharing of Rareparts and other kind of loot. Most of the LE'd people today prefer to play the Game solo because they make more profit in that way and are more efficient. But NC is a Mmorpg, isn't it?
    Last edited by Bruder Malmsdoo; 22-01-13 at 00:40.

  8. #38
    I'm A Computer Roc-a-fella's Avatar
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    for the record there was NEVER an xp bonus for removing your LE. Only a xp penalty for having it in

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    Right! For example hunting used to be a clan-event in the old days, because you needed the security of your clan mates. The Game forced the alliance with other players! But that also meant the sharing of Rareparts and other kind of loot. Most of the LE'd people today prefer to play the Game solo because they make more profit in that way and are more efficient. But NC is a Mmorg, isn't it?
    I think the games missing the massive part in MMORPG, which is a big part of your theoretical situation

    Also im not sure if you played nc1 at all but it was called monkocron for a reason they could solo anything most classes could..
    I think this more or less come down to people want to feel exclusive/elite and cooler then other people, very clique and high-school'ish imo

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    The interesting thing is that all hardcore PvP players I saw keep their LE in until they're near cap or even WoC and have the best equip. Then they remove it and moan about nobody being there to gank and kill. It's a attitude problem I guess.
    But that is a question of Setups and Weapon-Balance. Not-capped and without the right weapons you are fragmeat atm. But:

    I think that the LE-rules of the last years influenced the NC-culture in a very negative way.
    They lowered the pressure to interact with other players. On a 4-Slot-Server you could play nearly every aspect of the game on you own. Especially with a droner. Fixing the drone bugs made it a bit better, but there is still a lot of work to do.
    Last edited by Bruder Malmsdoo; 22-01-13 at 00:46.

  11. #41

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    only thing that will fix neocron will be a new client; this one is just to janky

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    There are more then one npc to kill for epics this is the kind of BS im talking about.........
    No, it's not BS, you're simply misunderstanding what is being said. These are not people killing contacts for *their* epics. These are people doing things like killing Manuel in PP2 so that *others* can't finish their quests until they respawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    Incentive's for removing LE before Cap for what reason, just why? Im still not understanding why it is insisted that people must pull their LE before cap'ing?
    Leaping to false conclusions again. The idea that people *must* pull their LE before capping was not brought up here. I explicitly stated that the suggestion in this thread wouldn't affect LE'd players at all, but here you are trying to make it sound like the suggestion was to make LEs going away. Are you trying to construct some sort of slippery slope argument or something? Like an American talking about gun control? That's not what's being discussed here and that's not how the thread originator asked that we comport ourselves in this thread. I'm starting think that dope dude is right and you're just a troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    This game is so top heavy since nc2 and addition of WoC the hierarchy of weaponry is "so called balance" is towards the top end not the lower end... some non rares make more damage then rares now days
    Which would matter, I guess, if we were discussing removing LEs all together, but since that's not the point, ultimately irrelevant. Walk away if you don't want to participate constructively. the real Chuck Norris doesn't troll. He punches their trolling faces through the back of their trolling little heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    There are things repercussions for having an LE, like lower damage, combat rank, the inability to join a clan and more

    Then people go back to using NC1 analogies well this isnt nc1 not even close, so please check those moot points at the door.
    What moot points? Are you saying comparing Neocron 2.2 to any other game is invalid, or just comparing it to itself from 10 years ago? Cuz, if you'd prefer we can talk about DAOC and other games that handle this problem significantly better than its treated here, now. The point isn't to bring back the "halcyon" days of NC1 (which were not all that Halcyon, I was there. In fact, I was there 4 years before you ever started playing if your join date is accurate) -- the point is to illustrate how things have changed and to maybe express the opinion that said changes weren't always for the better. Much like when they moved half of us to DoY. They realized that was a mistake and changed it, why can't we also examine other potential mistakes?

    Or is it simply that you fear change and want to shout so loud no one will notice this might be a change for the better? That's really not helping anyone, except those that want to make the case that you're not worth listening to.
    - BetMonty
    "He who has the money has the authority,
    and respect to the man with the Uzi." - Bradley

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    But that is a question of Setups and Weapon-Balance.

    I think that the LE-rules of the last years influenced the NC-culture in a very negative way.
    They lowered the pressure to interact with other players. On a 4-Slot-Server you can play nearly every aspect of the game on you own. Fixing the drone bugs made it a bit better, but there is still a lot of work to do.
    Seems like the games at the highest its ever been I cant completely agree with this, having to wait for someone in a different time zone from you to get your implants poked in or armor/weapons fixed to continue playing is just terrible imo

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roc-a-fella View Post
    for the record there was NEVER an xp bonus for removing your LE. Only a xp penalty for having it in
    That's a mechanical difference, but not one that really matters. Yes, technically the Xp debuff was on LE'd players, but the effective result was that you got more XP by shouldering the risk than you did obviating it.
    - BetMonty
    "He who has the money has the authority,
    and respect to the man with the Uzi." - Bradley

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    Any cap'd AoE class can clear rooms of noobs with their weapons, the noobs wont stand a chance ive seen it before, so i dont think a pack of noobs will take down a seasoned fine tuned cookie cutter build ganker/pvp'r
    So it's a pure numbers game? I'm not sure I buy that argument; it precludes the possibility that the newbs could be good tacticians or could have used the terrain to their advantage or could have executed a strategy. But again, totally irrelevant -- this isn't a conversation about removing the LE completely. Hell, it isn't even a conversation about changing the rules beyond giving some bonus XP to those that choose to remove their LE early.
    - BetMonty
    "He who has the money has the authority,
    and respect to the man with the Uzi." - Bradley

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