1. #1
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Default Reinstate the XP bonus for removing the LE

    When Neocron launched, in those halcyon days, there was a mechanic that offered greater XP rewards for those without LE's.

    This mechanic was clearly aimed at getting players to pull their "newb chip" as soon as they felt comfortable with the mechanics of the world, specifically to create a fertile bed for PvP (yes, even ganking, as that meant that Tradeskillers would remain in "safe" places in the city and build empires there, but wouldn't frequent dangerous places because they were, in fact, dangerous.) This was a way that theme and intended player behaviors were 'built-in' to the mechanics of the game.

    I am aware that it's frustrating to be summarily executed by a rival faction member, but PvP in a dystopic cyberpunk world is a core element and intent of this game, and the fear of being rumbled by a rival gang is what the TS/BD conflict or the TG-FA/City factions conflict is based on. I am well aware that populations were intended to be much higher, and spreading these factions (that were intended to be insular, and at war) out too thin was a large part of this games initial collapse - but I believe that theme is still valuable. It has been whittled away by degrees over the years to the point where LE protected runners may now behave with a WoW/EQ like impunity, going anywhere they want with no regard to the other players around them. That's sad.

    If I remember correctly, at that same time in development, LE's simply didn't work in all locations (like outside the city), so even with one in the runner still had to be conscious of their surroundings and nervous of rivals. This is simply lost from the game now.

    Thus, I propose reinstating the XP bonus for non-LE'd runners, to create incentive for runners to expose themselves to more risk in exchange for more reward. This will still allow those that don't want to fight, but also don't want to RP their faction (i.e. Pro-city factions leveling in Pepper Park or the Wastes rather than in their intended, protected locations in the city.) to play in their protective "Alone/Together" bubble, while creating incentive to play the game as it was originally intended, fostering a dystopian world of street gangs and corporate hitmen.

    Can we discuss this without name calling or troll statements, please? Only helpful comments appreciated Thanks.

  2. #2
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    similar arguements have been put forth over the past months with similar sentiments as yours. I liked the Wow/EQ impunity reference because its true. LE players do have it like that. Lots of different ideas were put forward to incentivise the removal of the LE but too many people talk of the mythical 'BIG BAD PKERS' that will come get em when they remove the LE.

    The truth is no one bothers to go pking because most people dont remove the LE. this would take a while for it to change too and by then im sure most people playing would have an idea who the pkers are and would deal with them appropriately. ie in a group with a length of rope and a tree

    as i have mentioned before in plenty of other threads i would support this idea of an incentive to remove it. Let people have a choice and dont punish anyone for not removing it. just reward the ones who do.
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  3. #3

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    Making the chip behave like any other chip ingame, ie. takes damage over time, can pop out at death, can be repaired. Not BPable.

    With a XP malus if you keep it in.

    NO to LE players acting with impunity

  4. #4
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    kame, do you really want to trade "LE players acting with impunity" for "non-LE players acting with impunity"? unless you or someone else will come up with a more balanced approach to non-consensual PvP.... nothing is going to change here. ok. fine.

  5. #5
    Uncontrolled Substance Dope's Avatar
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    Well, currently, non-LE runners do not have impunity (in that there are safe zones they cannot grief in that are enforced by code) - whereas there are no restrictions at all on LE'd runners. That isn't fair and balanced, is it?

    In the old days there were even more "safe areas" than there are now, I think?

  6. #6
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    people complaining about trade skillers getting ganked. even back in the days the traders had no le. you get a clan member to help you if u need something.

    if its such a huge issue then simply make via rosso 1 and 2 and plaza 2 and 4 safe zones. that covers all the major HQs and therefore the stores around them for easy access for trade skillers (except DRE). or if u wish make via 3 a safe zone (ncpd hq is there) leave the others free. it has a gr in the old chez cypher after all.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dope View Post
    Well, currently, non-LE runners do not have impunity (in that there are safe zones they cannot grief in that are enforced by code) - whereas there are no restrictions at all on LE'd runners. That isn't fair and balanced, is it?
    What outcomes are you making a comparison of, to say that it is unbalanced? Like, if a non-LE ganks another non-LE, there is a definite "victory" and "defeat" for both players. But, if you (without LE) encounter an LE runner, you surely don't consider that an automatic "victory" for the LE and a "defeat" for yourself, right?

  8. #8
    Neocron Citizen
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    Many games with pvp have this problem, they want to find a balance between the all out carebears will to play the game in a more PVE fashion and on the other hand the hard core PVPers that has the idea that if everyone is forced to pvp then all will be perfect.

    The truth is that if any of the games with balance in this would remove all their game mechanics that prevent a pvper to gank anyone they feel like ganking they would probably loose players.
    In the same way that if they would lock down all form of pvp they would also loose players...
    Thing is some of the normal PVE players have a certain feel for pvp and the other way around, so the balance is there to get those carebears to venture into pvp.

    I can admit that i am more of a carebear then i am a pvper. While i level at least.
    I DONT think we need to nerf the LE or restrict it more.. rather less.
    I DO think that we need bonuses that gives people incentives to venture into the pvp part of NC.
    With that said:

    Bring back the xp bonus for non-LE players.
    Not sure what it used to be but having a 20-30% bonus of exp when having a LE out is a nice bonus.

    Why not give bonuses for participating in pvp, Give a pvp kill exp?

    Make the rare part chance to drop a 20-30% increase if killer and partymembers are all without LE.
    Here we need some sort of mechanic so that a LE player cant grief this by shooting at the same mob, should be doable though.


    Maybe there are more things that could be added as bonuses to beeing without LE.

    Next thing is to give people with LE a way to take the step and remove the LE easier... now dont flame this its just a suggestion...
    Make it possible to reinstall the LE again regardless of level.
    By making this more people will dare try pvp, and then get a taste of its advantages. Ok this will get exploited, but make the implant time ... 7 days?
    I would probably take more of my characters into pvp for periods of time if i had a way to go back to LE again, as it is now i will only remove it on some of my characters.

    Lastly, the talk about safe zones in Neocron. It seems to me that via and plaza zones should be safe zones, they do have the police there at least. I remember in the old days the zone between plaza 3 and pepper park 1 is where the zone hopping usually would be. And it sort of fits the description of PP.

    /Surfer

  9. #9
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    I remember the LE at the start of NC1. For wearing the LE, I got less XP from levelling, and you got less money.

    I soon got the tip to remove the LE to get more XP and money. However I don't see removing the LE as a bonus. I see it as wearing the LE as a penalty. So I think the thread title should be bring back the LE penalties, not the other way around.

    Now one part of Neocron is PvP, the other part I see in these LE threads is people seem to forget is Neocron has a strong PvE element. There are players out there who want to explore and go hunting. They also maybe don't want to PvP. They also don't have the time to work out setups for PvP. (Let's face it, it's not easy)

    There are also players who don't play that often as the rest of us. So do they want to get ganked when they go hunting? No. So what they do take their LE out? No they don't.

    So what if we did bring back the XP penalty for wearing an LE? The result is these casual players are going to get bored again, and find the grinding the levels even worse. In other words the LE becomes a timesink. For casual players you don't want to make them put more time. They will get bored and leave the game, where we want them to stay.

    Do we want these players leave because of the XP penalty/timesink? No I don't think we do.

    Also one for the PvP'ers here? Would you prefer the player to cap and pull his LE out in a week, or will you get bored waiting an extra week for players to pull their LE out to PvP because of the XP penalty?

  10. #10
    Erik Reed on MARS DR REED's Avatar
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    Mostly i agree with Brammers, but:

    Now this is the another thread which issued the LE and Neocron.
    Much was said here yet, very good analyzed, so that i need not t add it again.

    From my point of view these statements are strongly valid:

    1. There are enough drawbacks actual for the LE- no Clans, no belt hacking,....

    2. Yes, definetely population will decrease if LE is removed or loaded with more penalties (as Brammers wrote)

    3. A modification of the LE issue is only admissive with a complete overhauling of the Sl/Criminal-Watch-System. Otherwise NC is going only the way to a "gank-max" game, which would be very worse one. Hard to believe that optmized ganking mechanisms combined with an easily exploitable SL/ Criminal Watch system could be succesful (for Psychos only : )

    So as i proposed we should keep calm and let this "new start" server Titan going evolve some weeks more and the number of non-LE'd players will grow, that's for sure. Some day we will have equilibrium as usual.

    Reed

  11. #11
    The REAL Walker
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    Just make WoC require that you dont have a LE in, and Im happy.. Few Things can get me more annoyed than someone in a WoC PA, who is LE'd.
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  12. #12
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    I'd say leave the LE as it is. No malus / bonus. There will always be people playing full PvE (and trade) or full PvP or a mix of both. Mostly the first group will leave their LE in.

    It's interesting tho that many of the hardcore PvP people leave their LE in until they get near cap and have full equip or even WoC before they take it out...

  13. #13
    Do-A-Dan danmalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    Just make WoC require that you dont have a LE in, and Im happy.. Few Things can get me more annoyed than someone in a WoC PA, who is LE'd.
    Give me a couple of weeks and you'll see some form of WoC LE'd character... I'm thinking tank or ppu – I did it on Terra so it’s only right that I do the same on the new server too :P

    Personally, I like the LE the way it is mainly because I don't recall it changing in all the time since I started out.
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  14. #14
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Just let people re-implant if they want with no rank restriction and I think you'd see more people willing to take it out in the first place.
    That and a reduction in exp gain would give incentives to remove it but also the safety that pulling it isn't a do or die decision that can't be reversed.
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  15. #15
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netphreak View Post
    Just let people re-implant if they want with no rank restriction and I think you'd see more people willing to take it out in the first place.
    God no! I still remember back when LE's got bugged (acted like normal imps). The GMs allowed people to get their LEs in eventhough they were capped.. It created A LOT of griefers..
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