Vehicle Behaviour

[Deus Ex Machina]

I used some time on the testserver to try different Vehicles and, not surprisingly, came to the conclusion that something is seriously messed up there.

I drove around the track of Desert Race Track, counted a finished round without mistakes.
Initial Acceleration was done before strating timetaking.
All tests happened with 55 Vehicle use.

Maybe times might differ a little based on better or worse driving, but on the whole I think times are accurate:

NEXT Quad V.1 1 min 23 sec
NEXT ER Chaincraft V.1 1 min 30 sec
NEXT ER Wheeler Speedbike V.1 1 min 29 sec
NEXT ER Hovertech V.1 1 min 19 sec
NEXT HH Wheeler V.2 1 min 40 sec
NEXT ER Assault Bike V.2 1 min 25 sec
NEXT ER Combat Chaincraft V.1.2 2 min 05 sec
NEXT HH4x4 Chaincraft V.1 1 min 38 sec
NEXT Reveler-Chaincraft V.2.5 1 min 37 sec

Other observations:
1) Other than the Hovertech, each Vehicle has a worse turning behaviour than the Quad - which is "free" and cannot be destroyed (the turning of the Quad is awesome)
2) The NEXT HH Wheeler V.2 has a very large hitbox and hangs very fast if you come even a bit close to a stack of tires

Conclusion: Since the Quad, no Vehicle is worth it. Not even the Hovertech really, true you are a little faster, come up a little more hills, but thats all, you still risk the thing when you drive around. And the Quad has one of the lowest requirements of all the vehicles.

I can think of lots of fixes, but the most obvious is the following: Crash down the Quad. Make it an nearly crawling, slow accelerating and hard turning thing. Its a prototype after all. Better up all other vehicles a bit. And THEN maybe issue a "NEXT Quad V.2", having different colour, higher requirements and better driving - and cost.
Make it so that:
1) Everyone who chooses to risk a vehicle has an advantage of it
2) Make vehicles of the same "type" (for example 1 person transporter without combat option is a type" have a ranking. The better it is, the more it costs and the higher the requirement is.
3) And Maybe: Make Vehicles a not Free for all target - e.g. giving away the faction of the owner and having SL consequences.

[Torg]

i agree that vehicles need some polishing, and that needs to be done not too far in the future. right now vehicles do not have a valid purpose in NC, besides the undestructable quad for exploring and the rhino for firemob team xp. vehicles need to have a role in PvP, so at least armour should be turned up. i feel deus' ideas are a solid base for further discussion. thumbs up!

[Jodo]

I've been thinking much the same thing for a while now, although I didn't run the tests (no Termi Quad btw?).
The Quad is great, I love it, but it makes random encounters with other Runners a little boring. Being a noob and seeing such an array of vehicles as you traversed the wastes really gave you something to aspire to. For looks, I still prefer the bog standard NEXT ER Wheeler Speedbike V.1, but it's such a piece of crap compared to others. I also love the APC though I forget the proper name.


What I would really like to see changed is the ability for un LE'd runners to destroy the vehicles of LE'd runners. I see absolutely no point to this. Either make a check about the vehicles owner or create a second (identical) list of vehicles that are indestructible like the Quad but require an LE to drive (as well as the usual requirements).

[Supideo]

+1 to this, its sickening how good the Jones' Quad is.

As an alternative to the LE'd indestructable vehicles, make some system that allows you to rebuild keys of wrecked vehicles? Maybe recycle w/ some of the vehicle parts, or have the vehicle spawn in a wrecked state that needs to get repaired past 100% to be used again?

[Bruder Malmsdoo]

I support the proposal to nerve the Quad! It makes all other vehicles clearly useless. Make it destructible and fix the bug that allows to destroy vehicles of LE'd runners. Under that conditions the vehicle is still better than other Jones-items (Flamer, Drone, ....).

BUT:

Every rebalancing of the vehicles is useless, until the zoning-issues with more then 1 player in a vhc get fixed (especially flying vehicles)

[lawless]

I would not nerf the Jones quad at all, but therefore higher the speed and controlability of the other vehicles.

Take the Jones quad as the baselevel.
100 % Speed
100 % Control
VHC: 15
Price: None (Jones run)
Why: Because it's the cheapest for noobs. They can get to Tech Haven / Military base without risking a lot of money.

Chaincraft
70 % Speed
50 % Control
VHC 15
Price: 80k
Why: Because it uses chains, which would not work that well then tires.

Hoverbike
150 % Speed
150 % Control
VHC 40
Price: 150k
Why: Because it hover's without touching the ground

Terminator Assault Quad
100 % Speed
100 % Control
VHC: 70, STR 70, H-C 90
Price: 2 Million NC, Quest, undestroyable
Why: Because for the hard run, it should at least be worth it

Wheeler Speedbike
120 % Speed
120 % Control
VHC: 30
Price: 120k
Why: Because it's a bike and bikes are fast and easy to use

Observer / Scout
200 % Speed
200 % Control
VHC: 70
Price: 200k
Why: Because it freakin flys (also it should be a hoverglider, not a just-fly-forward-glider - it needs better movement like when standing in the air you can still move it up, down, forward, back and to the sides, maybe make it reliable on the VHC energypack then so if it's out of energy and there is non in your inventory, it will turn off).


I could go on with this list, although i just want to give you all an small understatement what i think about this topic. I really love the quad how it is right now - it's like everything in one: fast, reliable, undestroyable, cheap and a good shelter. If you want to nerv the quad, just adjust all the other vehicles to a better performance and people will buy them, because they want to travel the fastest way possible. If that is the (new control improved) observer which will take 70 VHC and some energypacks to fly from Neocron to the Military Base for example, let them buy this one.


Still, let there be a cheap way to travel for noobs without money (and mostly no possible way to reach distant regions when there is no help).

[William Antrim]

I like the fuel idea for vehicles.


I would just like to see a button to allow ascent/descent on the Z axis (vertical up and down) for flying vehicles tbh. I think this would make more people use them. You could use the "jump" (space bar on my setup) button I guess and maybe shift + jump to go in reverse?

[Deus Ex Machina]

Chaincraft
70 % Speed
50 % Control
VHC 15
Price: 80k
Why: Because it uses chains, which would not work that well then tires.

But with chains it should be way easier to climb hills with it. Which in NC is based on speed. It also would cost something and be much worse than the Quad - so ah Very NOOOOOOO ?? it would be as useless as it is now.

[...] I really love the quad how it is right now - it's like everything in one: fast, reliable, undestroyable, cheap and a good shelter. [...] Still, let there be a cheap way to travel for noobs without money [...]

Sorry, but that is exactly the problem with the Quad. It is cheap, very useful and costs nothing - so everyone loves it. I like it too (i only use others just BECAUSE), which changes nothing in my opinion that it should not be so freaking good. A cheap way to travel without money is by foot by the way. And also a nerfed Quad would be one. And maybe other low vehicles should be a bit cheaper to be usefull to noobs, but the Quad is a "One Vehicle beats All" at the moment, and its pretty fast. If other are very much faster the enemy and landscape drawing won't always work fast enough (sometimes happens with the hovertech now). And the Quad will still be enough for getting around a bit, not everyone will want the fastest, if it can be destroyed, so the quad will be nearly as popular as it is now.
Not many will want a Ferrari Racecar if they already have a Porsche, so to speak (I think the comparison works, but I don't have much experience with cars, so don't take it too literally)

[William Antrim]

I think the biggest single problem with vehicles currently is the fact that you have to leave it in the middle of nowhere when youre levelling and someone else can come and blow it up just for fun. If that happens then it is incredibly expensive to replace some of the vehicles and thus people dont like to go through that pain. The quad is fast/cheap/reliable and never gets destroyed, hence people use it. Same with the Reveller. It was ALWAYS the most popular vehicle until the Quad came out. Far and away.

If all vehicles were made in this way then you would see more people use more vehicles I expect. The problem with this is you ruin the vehicle selling economy.

If the Quad had its special status removed then you would ruin a cheap effective reliable vehicle for getting the noobs around. This would impact newer players too much imo.

If you raised the driving requirement on the quad or raised its repair costs then this would impact the noobs the most. If you nerfed its speed then noone would use it.


Basically if you mess around with the Quad in any way now it will only serve to do bad things for the majority of people.

However if you gave people the OPTION to despawn the quad for some amount of money - say 5k for example? - instead of driving it to a Warp Garage to park it then you MIGHT see more people spec vehicle use and actually go places in a vehicle or use it for levelling even as a primary method.

The problem is not the vehicles as I said, it is the cost of them when some fucker blows yours up just for a laugh.

If some way could be found to despawn the vehicles on a scalable cost in line with the total unit cost (if a troop carrier costs 200k to buy then maybe it costs 20k to despawn?) this might save people the heart ache.

I realise that the very first comparison people will make between the despawn of vehicle costs vs GR costs to go to an area but hold that thought for a second.

The speed of getting to "locked" grs to tag them and the security and firepower which could be offered by a vehicle when levelling (rhinos for example) and the ability to despawn them in the field (by use of a special "repair" tool for example) might well be the best way to counter act the pain and loss of your precious glider.

[Dribble Joy]

I do think the quad needs toning down. It doesn't help that it's faster than just about everything other than a hovertech. Taking the nerf bat to it and making it shit won't help though.

Making all vehicles indestructible will damage their trading, but it could possibly be worked. If you were to make the repair costs for a destroyed vehicle very high (much more than bringing it back from 1%) and add some permanent health loss (tie total hp with key condition somehow?) then you might keep people being buying new ones but lessen the pain of it being lost.

[Jodo]

Perhaps give vehicles a shelf life like all other items. They can be repaired from 0% but after many repairs, there is nothing left anymore.
Also, the quad doesn't need to be so fast. Just faster than noob legs really.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Making all vehicles indestructible will damage their trading, but it could possibly be worked. If you were to make the repair costs for a destroyed vehicle very high (much more than bringing it back from 1%) and add some permanent health loss (tie total hp with key condition somehow?) then you might keep people being buying new ones but lessen the pain of it being lost.

I'd be for it, sounds like quite a good suggestion to me. There would be demand for vehicles, letting them being destroyed would still not be good, but it would soften the blow. Of course its not entirely realistic, but since spawning from ASG isn't too, its not tragic. With that change it might be easier to bring the special vehicles in line.

[Biglines]

You could use the "jump" (space bar on my setup) button I guess and maybe shift + jump to go in reverse?

most games that allow flying vehicles together with infantry controls generally use the crouch button to descend, the jump button to to ascend, which makes sense imho.

i've never really understood why so few people use gliders though, aside from the requirements, they are so incredibly fast, and if u know how, they very easily take off and land. I've used gliders on my ppu for years, it's awesome at ferrying around people to remote areas in far far less time than any other vehicle.

but ye, i agree that the quad might be nerfed a bit in the speed department, but keeping it as an indestructible vehicle for beginners is something I think should be kept.

[Sorin]

If you're going to make the Jones quad destructible, then you need to have a facility in place to replace it. You can't just give a noob a shiny new vehicle for doing their first mission in a new game, only to get to use it once and have it destroyed and then find out they can't replace it without rolling a temporary character to do the mission again. So, what is the proposed mechanism for that? Something reasonable, based on current functionality.

[Bruder Malmsdoo]

New runners have the LE in. So the Jones Quad cannot be destroyed for a long time, IF the BUG is fixed, that allows le-vhc to be destroyed atm. When they remove the LE, they easily have the money to buy a vehicle. So the decision to make the Quad destructible doesn't hit the Noob at all. Only the experienced player.