1. #31

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    Woc is supposed to be one hundred million over cap right? Pe caps dex at about thirty million. so why isn't woc dex for a Pe 130 million?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arista Barret View Post
    Woc is supposed to be one hundred million over cap right? Pe caps dex at about thirty million. so why isn't woc dex for a Pe 130 million?
    woc is at about 260m total xp, which for tanks, monks and spies just happens to be 100m overcap.

    it's a pain, and as countless threads have already said, would be good to be seen changed, but a pe's cap is only 30 million, which is really easy to cap, so just a 100m overcap for woc would be unfair to other classes.

    just saying make everything 100m overcap is too simplistic
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biglines View Post
    woc is at about 260m total xp, which for tanks, monks and spies just happens to be 100m overcap.

    it's a pain, and as countless threads have already said, would be good to be seen changed, but a pe's cap is only 30 million, which is really easy to cap, so just a 100m overcap for woc would be unfair to other classes.

    just saying make everything 100m overcap is too simplistic
    No its not. Not in the slightest. PE has had the shaft for a long time. It is time they got the love. It is a simple fix.
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  4. #34

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    It's just sick to bring a PE on Woc, don't know how the actual players do it on their own. For good advices to level a PE up to Woc I pay in unressed

  5. #35

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    I am working on my third woc Pe. It would take more time to woc a Pe at 100 mil overcap even at 130 total than it takes to cap other classes. To say unfair to other classes? Wtf ? I think you missed the Pe point of view.

  6. #36
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biglines View Post
    which is really easy to cap, so just a 100m overcap for woc would be unfair to other classes.

    just saying make everything 100m overcap is too simplistic

    LOL!!!!

    So 20 Dex levels that the PE doesnt get balances out that issue. Shot down in flames. Dude seriously. think about what you just wrote.

    100m over cap is More than enough. Especially when factoring in xp gain rates for a pe.

    I can disagree with different opinions but see the point of view at the same time but that comment is beyond ridiculous.

    Simplistic is good. its 257m Xp for woc 1. Stat 100 is 157m xp.
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    LOL!!!!

    So 20 Dex levels that the PE doesnt get balances out that issue. Shot down in flames. Dude seriously. think about what you just wrote.

    100m over cap is More than enough. Especially when factoring in xp gain rates for a pe.

    I can disagree with different opinions but see the point of view at the same time but that comment is beyond ridiculous.

    Simplistic is good. its 257m Xp for woc 1. Stat 100 is 157m xp.
    might wanna actually read before quoting just one small bit of it...

    All I'm saying is that randomly pulling 100m out of a hat is not the way to go about it. you yourself say that PE's level at different rates, and I fully agree that the 230m overcap is ridiculous, but 80 levels (30m) + 100m would almost certainly be much faster than the 100m + 100 levels (160m) on spies, tanks or apu's. The way to go about it is to actually calculate honestly what the same equivalent amount of xp would be, based on actual calculations, instead of randomly pretending PE's are the same as the other classes.

    And yes, I fully understand that it's possible that I am making a mistake and have misjudged the leveling speed for a pe. It still does not invalidate my point that simply taking 100m is too simplistic a measure. it should be recalculated from scratch and actually take those leveling speeds into account, not just pretend that pe's are the same as apu's, tanks and spies. Balancing this kind of stuff should be based on facts and testing, not random numbers taken from unequivalent classes just because it "seems" fair.

    edit: hell, my post mostly agrees with the option B of your own opening post... 100m is a random number that has been taken from the the other classes, that you yourself show to be entirely different from the leveling speed of PE's. then why are people so focussed on 100m? just because it's a nice round number?

    if you want to be certain that woc xp is fair for different classes, xp needs to be calculated based on the classes themselves, so ppu's level much faster in teams that they do now (ever tried to woc a ppu in a team?), rifles and pistols need leveling spots where their high 1on1 damage output allows them to level reasonably the same as other ways of leveling. this obsession with the specific 100m overcap is the only thing I am against. it is an arbitrary number that might work for apu's, droning spies, and aoe'ing tanks, but for all other play styles it is not relevant.
    Last edited by Biglines; 15-02-13 at 08:42.
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  8. #38

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    Randomly out of a Hat? You might wanna actually read before quoting just one small bit of it...considering the time it takes to get woc, on the other three classes, after 167mil cap. Also considering the amount of time it takes a PE to gain 100mil after cap...I still have to say 167mil would be my guess for fair and even grounds on all classes. You can crunch the numbers of you like but it you will not be able to say any class is exactly equal. Simple.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biglines View Post
    if you want to be certain that woc xp is fair for different classes, xp needs to be calculated based on the classes themselves, so ppu's level much faster in teams that they do now (ever tried to woc a ppu in a team?), rifles and pistols need leveling spots where their high 1on1 damage output allows them to level reasonably the same as other ways of leveling. this obsession with the specific 100m overcap is the only thing I am against. it is an arbitrary number that might work for apu's, droning spies, and aoe'ing tanks, but for all other play styles it is not relevant.
    This is something that would be awesome. However, although probably pretty hard to do.

    I actually still think that a PE would be slower to get WoC on, even if it only needed 100mil overcap..
    It is pure hell to get to use RK1000's on a PE (3 MC5's needed IIRC).
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  10. #40
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    If 100m is such a random number then work out the % 100m is from 157m which is level 100 for a given stat.

    Apply that % to what the total xp is at a PE's dex cap of 80m and work that out. thats logical to me.

    Teaming got fixed also. I wocced my ppu in a team. I didnt do it the apu way. i levelled up to 85 psi then lommed and did the rest as a ppu. its not that hard at all. Monk intel is still worse.
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  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    If 100m is such a random number then work out the % 100m is from 157m which is level 100 for a given stat.

    Apply that % to what the total xp is at a PE's dex cap of 80m and work that out. thats logical to me.

    Teaming got fixed also. I wocced my ppu in a team. I didnt do it the apu way. i levelled up to 85 psi then lommed and did the rest as a ppu. its not that hard at all. Monk intel is still worse.
    not sure if that is a fair calculation (i think you should include xp gain there somewhere), but ye, sounds about right

    and good to hear about ppu, it used to be hell to do in teams.

    I've always wondered why intelligence which is a main skill for the monk, and is even used in the fighting (psi pool) is so slow to level.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    PE's dex cap of 80m
    Either you were talking about the 80 dex cap of PEs or were assuming PEs capped at 80m xp.
    The latter is not correct, PEs cap at around 24m xp.

    Going from 24m to 257m at the xp rate of a PE takes significantly more time than another class does to reach 100m overcap.

    I would prefer PEs to hit WoC at the same time as the other classes, but I am unaware of the exact xp rates. I threw out the 100m xp total as a guess.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy View Post
    Snip
    yes it was a typo. As i said the 100m came from the fact that 157m is Dex/Con/Str/Psi/Int 100 and 100m overcap is 257m. Applying that is the simple way to shorten the PE's task of woc without having to get all mathematical on it. It was the sledgehammer fix not the surgical fix.

    The 2nd equation doing it percentage based is more complex ( i was considering this from both a coding aspect and that of an end user ) as it could be more difficult for a player to figure out what his actual xp value he needs to attain is. Hence the 100m overcap. Still a MASSIVE reduction in the grind to woc for the private eye and it kept it simple.

    I do try and cover all aspects when i write a suggestion like this. i mulled it for a long long time. Too bad i wasnt involved in the balancing process initially like some forum users were. We might not be in such a mess

    If i did my math right 100/157 = 0.63 x 100 63%

    63% of 24m = 15120000m so that makes 15.1m for easy figure. Doesnt seem right though....... I think i might be miscalulating this. Math isnt my strongest suit im afraid. Feel free to correct me.
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  14. #44
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    I'd think the correct amount of XP would be as high, so that a PE needs the same time to reach WOC than a SPY when we are talking about DEX.

    And then its not a percentage of the max XP before overcapping that is needed, but the leveling time needs to be taken in account. And thats a bit difficult to calculate without knowing the exact numbers, but I think I can propably kick out a formula for it, were the right numbers would have to just have to be inserted to know which would be the right point.

    So what would be needed:
    -) The Dex Leveling Speed compared to a Spy [lets say its 80% for the example below]
    -) The damage disadvantage a PE has in High End Weapons (Less Damage = Slower Leveling) [lets say 10% for the example below]
    -) The total XP a PE needs for capping (XP of all levels combined [I have no idea, I'll take the 24million someone mentioned for the example, I'll guess thats the number?]

    So a PE can cap faster than a Spy, but than cannot increase in Damage more, but till that point he is only handicapped by the leveling speed. so we have to take 80% of the PE Cap, thats 80% of 24 million, thats 19,2 millon XP
    Now we take from the Total XP a Spy needs for WOC the cap from the PE, thats 257 million I think, minus the 24 million (they are accounted for), resulting in 233 Million XP unaccounted for.
    Now we calculate the 233 million down by the leveling disadvantage of the PE, in this example 80% which results in 186,4 million XP.
    From these we take the probable damage disadvantage from weapons too, 10 % in this example, resulting in 167,76 million XP
    Combined we have 167,76 millions plus 19,2 millions resulting in 186,96 million total XP the PE would gain in the same time a spy needs to gain 257 million XP.

    Of course the percentages are arbitrary taken by me and would have to be calculated or known, but I think the way would be sound.
    And of course other things factor in to the leveling too sometimes (finding enemies and so on) but 1) I was just number crunching, and 2) I don't think those things are that relevant.
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  15. #45
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Im crap at maths but deus youre saying that by your formula the pe takes almost twice as long to get to woc?
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