Reward Taking out Law Enforcer Chip (LE)

[William Antrim]

IF you had a way for low level runners to fight with other low level runners around their level (or any level) with rewards but WITHOUT abusive mechanics then you would have a great game.

I think that if you gave low level runners cash to kill each other, enemies this is, normal rules apply for killing neutrals then you'd have a good incentive to kill others.

However developing this point further you could possibly add an XP bonus to killing ones enemies. Not a huge one and only in your main skill dependent on the level of the person/difference to yours perhaps.

This bonus however would not be paid if the level differences were too high/too low.
It would not be paid if the person had SI either.
It would not be paid to neutral or friendly factions.

The only 2 issues I can see with this is

A) All factions need the same amount of enemies. Black Dragon has lots currently and DRE has hardly any. This would avoid polarisation to certain factions.

B) open world PVP (Ganking to some people) needs to be HEAVILY penalised for killing people of much lower rank. Like TONNES higher than now in levelling zones/caves.

Battlefield sectors would need MORE pve in them to encourage runners to go there and level and also have the possibility of fighting in them.

Caves would probably need to be addressed - SL losses etc might be better as wasteland sectors so you can get the rewards and the pitfalls too.


However Net is right and Torg too. The weapons need to be more balanced first then it gives people a chance to fight back. Also you might want to think about extending the amount of time it takes to kill people. I know WOW uses instances to control levelling among groups within a range but obviously NC does not have those resources so working with what there is this might be the best way to do it.

I am all for making fights last longer. I know lots of people like to wait till you have hardly any health before they kill you but that is just a pitfall of not having the LE i guess.

[Drachenpaladin]

IF you had a way for low level runners to fight with other low level runners around their level (or any level) with rewards but WITHOUT abusive mechanics then you would have a great game.

And here we already have the fatal pathogen that undermines the whole concept. There is no un-exploitable reward system.

[William Antrim]

And here we already have the fatal pathogen that undermines the whole concept. There is no un-exploitable reward system.

Epic fail.

Of course there is. Wow manages it. NC can too.

[Drachenpaladin]

Wow manages it. NC can too.

Apples and oranges?

[Chuck Norris]

Epic fail.

Of course there is. Wow manages it. NC can too.

Dude did you really just compare NC to wow lol; talk about epic fails

[Netphreak]

IF you had a way for low level runners to fight with other low level runners around their level (or any level) with rewards but WITHOUT abusive mechanics then you would have a great game.

I think that if you gave low level runners cash to kill each other, enemies this is, normal rules apply for killing neutrals then you'd have a good incentive to kill others.

However developing this point further you could possibly add an XP bonus to killing ones enemies. Not a huge one and only in your main skill dependent on the level of the person/difference to yours perhaps.

This bonus however would not be paid if the level differences were too high/too low.
It would not be paid if the person had SI either.
It would not be paid to neutral or friendly factions.

The only 2 issues I can see with this is

A) All factions need the same amount of enemies. Black Dragon has lots currently and DRE has hardly any. This would avoid polarisation to certain factions.

B) open world PVP (Ganking to some people) needs to be HEAVILY penalised for killing people of much lower rank. Like TONNES higher than now in levelling zones/caves.

Battlefield sectors would need MORE pve in them to encourage runners to go there and level and also have the possibility of fighting in them.

Caves would probably need to be addressed - SL losses etc might be better as wasteland sectors so you can get the rewards and the pitfalls too.


However Net is right and Torg too. The weapons need to be more balanced first then it gives people a chance to fight back. Also you might want to think about extending the amount of time it takes to kill people. I know WOW uses instances to control levelling among groups within a range but obviously NC does not have those resources so working with what there is this might be the best way to do it.

I am all for making fights last longer. I know lots of people like to wait till you have hardly any health before they kill you but that is just a pitfall of not having the LE i guess.

My thoughts about weapon damage would be mainly to lower the top end damage and then balance the rest around that.
Mob damage should also be lowered, as it's far far too high. Keep their health the same or increase it.

This would have 2 effects, make PvP last longer no more tanks with high resists dying in 5-6 shots etc. (PPU's shields and heals would need looked at and adjusted accordingly)
PvE should become a challenge were you don't just die in a few hits from mobs if you don't have a ppu strapped to your ass, but also you can't just steamroll through mobs either.

I'm sure there is more issues associated with my thinking but it's my rough suggestion for some kind of solution at the moment.

[William Antrim]

He said it couldnt be done. I said it could and gave an example. No I never compared NC to WOW. I merely stated a fact with some logical thought to back it up. Now can you do the same?

[Faid]

IF you had a way for low level runners to fight with other low level runners around their level (or any level) with rewards but WITHOUT abusive mechanics then you would have a great game.

I think that if you gave low level runners cash to kill each other, enemies this is, normal rules apply for killing neutrals then you'd have a good incentive to kill others.

However developing this point further you could possibly add an XP bonus to killing ones enemies. Not a huge one and only in your main skill dependent on the level of the person/difference to yours perhaps.

This bonus however would not be paid if the level differences were too high/too low.
It would not be paid if the person had SI either.
It would not be paid to neutral or friendly factions.

The only 2 issues I can see with this is

A) All factions need the same amount of enemies. Black Dragon has lots currently and DRE has hardly any. This would avoid polarisation to certain factions.

B) open world PVP (Ganking to some people) needs to be HEAVILY penalised for killing people of much lower rank. Like TONNES higher than now in levelling zones/caves.

Battlefield sectors would need MORE pve in them to encourage runners to go there and level and also have the possibility of fighting in them.

Caves would probably need to be addressed - SL losses etc might be better as wasteland sectors so you can get the rewards and the pitfalls too.


However Net is right and Torg too. The weapons need to be more balanced first then it gives people a chance to fight back. Also you might want to think about extending the amount of time it takes to kill people. I know WOW uses instances to control levelling among groups within a range but obviously NC does not have those resources so working with what there is this might be the best way to do it.

I am all for making fights last longer. I know lots of people like to wait till you have hardly any health before they kill you but that is just a pitfall of not having the LE i guess.

If this were the case I would create a couple low level chars at different levels. I would max out the available stats for pvp, I would use slot enhancers to create 5 slot weapons and I would ultimate them. I would gear armor specifically for pvp concurrent with that particular level. I would then keep a dedicated PPU near me and head into all leveling area's and proceed to kill everyone i find leveling there. It would be fun because I have a distinct advantage in weapons, armor, PPU buffs, holy shields, holy heals, and PVP setup. All those poor people trying to level would have to enjoy the fun of being killed over and over and over again while trying to level.

If this idea can occur to me, someone who does not take pleasure in pointlessly killing other runners, then you can be damn sure the people who actually like griefing other people will think of this.

The LE system as it stands right now is fine in my opinion. The potential for abuse is too large to go changing it now.

[William Antrim]

Due to the open world levelling of the game yes. I never said the idea was perfect but its a whole huge long way away from whining and bitching. Its a good way of starting some discussion though.

[Kame]

Try reducing the skill REQ so having 100 skill in combat class doesnt equal a super gimped usage and damage.

Right now we need 180+ to have a somewhat good feeling, normal freq. on a rare weapon. A lot of people spec 200+ skill.

Making it so the gap between 100 and 200 isnt 50%, but rather 25%, but those are speculative figures.

[Mr. Kassad]

@William Antrim:

I hate to just say "does not work" without providing an alternative but it's just that way right now.
No matter what reward you give for killing others (may it be SL/XP/Money/Sympathy/etc) can and will be heavily exploited in Neocron.

Why?

Even though its against the rules, lots of players have multiple accounts, because this rule gets not (can not be?) enforced.
They just do a double log in with one of their many twinks in other factions and kill them repeatedly.

And even if you only have one account: Titan is a 4 Slot-Server. If you have a friend with only one enemy faction runner amongst his four chars, you can play the same exploiting-game like described above.


THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED:
And now (even though I might get stoned to death for it) I explain why this works better (but not perfectly) in WoW:
You can only join one team per server. So if your first char on Server X is Alliance, you cannot create a Horde char on that particular server. Neocron would have to implement something like this aswell.

But that said: This does not fix the multi-acc problem at all, even if NC would cost money. I knew several guys on Mars that hat 2-4 Accounts each and paid for it all by themselves.

[William Antrim]

Youre right Mr Kassad. I thought long and hard about the issue before posting. I am still of the belief that there is a way for all of this to work however. My glass is half full, it is not half dead - stood at the gr with 50% SI as some peoples is.

[Doc Holliday]

Dude did you really just compare NC to wow lol; talk about epic fails

LOL!!!! In order to show an example of how a system can be dealt with and a problem handled, another mmo is stated as the example and all you're tiny little brain can do is look at it literally and go omg wtf epic fail rather than trying to identify the relevance of the statement. comedy.

Engage brain. Then engage fingers.

[Kame]

I don't think big changes are the way to go. Especially not in a game where so many aspects besides PVP itself comes into play, and especially not at the game-rules level. People tend to hate that, and it would be a shame to see them leave. This is why I say NO to any other implementation of items regarding the game LE rules.

Please do not add items to fix game-rules this is clearly not the way to go.


The change I propose is easy to implement and kinda subtle, but it has big impacts nonetheless.

Making the dungeons/caves Warzone means :

- no SL loss/gain
- no FS loss/gain
- no dropbelts

This would have impacts on many aspects of the leveling part of the game. For one, leveling players would perhaps feel more inclined towards taking the LE out, since they would not fear losing items while leveling. And lets not forget that leveling players are the ones that populates leveling-areas, not end-game PVPrs.

It also would mean that you won't tend to accept random strangers team invite (by fear of mistakingly damaging them and their death then leading to your soullight being penalized) in such place, and would certainly not lead to your item getting stolen in you dropbelt.

Also I always found it weird that you get reward (dropbelt) for killing runners in dungeons/caves... you should get a reward for killing a runner in the wastes, the city, in fact everywhere but Safezones, Warzones (OP) and Dungeons/Caves.

It might also have an impact on gankers since there is no more belts to hack, or it might not (personnally I think it would not).

Would even provide new places for fighting, far from zonelines. I can already see clan wars for certain spots, like Regent.


I don't see too many maluses, apart from people claiming it will promote ganking in dungeons/caves, since that already happens quite often. I don't think there's a need to punish players from killing runners in the dungeons/caves.

[Chuck Norris]

I don't think big changes are the way to go. Especially not in a game where so many aspects besides PVP itself comes into play, and especially not at the game-rules level. People tend to hate that, and it would be a shame to see them leave. This is why I say NO to any other implementation of items regarding the game LE rules.

Please do not add items to fix game-rules this is clearly not the way to go.


The change I propose is easy to implement and kinda subtle, but it has big impacts nonetheless.

Making the dungeons/caves Warzone means :

- no SL loss/gain
- no FS loss/gain
- no dropbelts

This would have impacts on many aspects of the leveling part of the game. For one, leveling players would perhaps feel more inclined towards taking the LE out, since they would not fear losing items while leveling. And lets not forget that leveling players are the ones that populates leveling-areas, not end-game PVPrs.

It also would mean that you won't tend to accept random strangers team invite (by fear of mistakingly damaging them and their death then leading to your soullight being penalized) in such place, and would certainly not lead to your item getting stolen in you dropbelt.

Also I always found it weird that you get reward (dropbelt) for killing runners in dungeons/caves... you should get a reward for killing a runner in the wastes, the city, in fact everywhere but Safezones, Warzones (OP) and Dungeons/Caves.

It might also have an impact on gankers since there is no more belts to hack, or it might not (personnally I think it would not).

Would even provide new places for fighting, far from zonelines. I can already see clan wars for certain spots, like Regent.


I don't see too many maluses, apart from people claiming it will promote ganking in dungeons/caves, since that already happens quite often. I don't think there's a need to punish players from killing runners in the dungeons/caves.

Great ideas Kame; I likes!