Neocron is a PVP Game. LE Chip is fine but needs to not work in certain areas.

[William Antrim]

From my experiences they are one in the same most of the time, in fact many times they say "well i guess you should have had your LE in if you didnt want us to kill you in a leveling spot" .

Not like PVPers will always have others on to op fight with

I think I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. The griefers will say this but they are usually the same people who pk allies and will not leave a safezone without a ppu. There will always be cowards in everything and people who absolutely have to bring entire teams of people to "grief". Uranus was full of them. We had "gank" teams who used to regularly bring one or two ppus to fight in their gank teams. They told us they did it because they could.

We just went and took all of their ops instead and made them fight us in a battleground sector and beat them 2 3 and 4 times over until they got tired of coming back to die again.

No theyre not one and the same. I am a pvper and I do not gank anyone unless they shoot first.

[Faid]

I honestly dont think Kane is a griefer wanting more unLE'd people to gank. He's an old player returning after many years and I think he simply misses the way NC used to be. Unfortunately NC is a completely different game now. When I first started back in NC1 on Pluto I popped my LE out on day 1. I did this because that was the way the game was back then. I joined a clan and leveled with them, which required me to not have an LE in. I op fought with them uncapped as a lot of people used to do back then. The population was big and there were always people around to help you out or help defend when things got rough.

The culture of the game was different back then, there was a certain respectability associated with the player base, there was honor amongst people. This is not true in the current NC (for the most part). Things had to change in order for the game to survive, the player base had to be consolidated in one area, thats why everyone is allowed in p1 now. The game is not the same as it once was, and probably will never be. Thats not to say that it can't be fun or enjoyable, but it can't be the way it was. Multiple accounts on a 4 slot server dramatically changes playstyle.

I think Kane and many others (myself included) miss the way things used to be. But unfortunately I don't think it can ever go back.

[William Antrim]

Having played on a four slot server for most of my time in NC I think that the majority of your good memories come because people HAD to be careful and kind to each other. More so than on a four slot server with 3+ alts plus rerolls to hide behind. On Uranus we had no such pleasantries. It was not as bad as saturn but there was a VERY different social dynamic.

[Kame]

Lets take a l

[DR REED]

So you saying we should just keep exploiting then? I mean that is how you play Neocron right?

Drone = Exploiting.

I am tired of this.....

And: NO.... Neocron is at first an excellent Roleplay game, one which very nice open (!!!) pvp environment, too.... of course.


The best way to ruin the game again is to make it pvp-only. And before it's going lost: Cheating/ exploiting is at most the domain of PVP PLAYERS. What should rp player cheat for ?


And this quote says all:

I am just going to copy paste this in every "Neocron is a PvP only game" thread I see.

We've had this discussion before, in 2002. Reakktor GAVE us servers with less safe zones and gave us a server with NO safe zones. How did it turn out? 90% OF THE PLAYER BASE LEFT EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. After a few weeks of play.

NEOCRON REQUIRES PLAYERS TO TRADESKILL AND LEVEL FOR PVP TO HAPPEN.

And the only way to do both of those "within a decent amount of time" is wearing your LE.

Once again, this has been done before on multiple servers, and every time all you hardcore PvPers just up and left to go play Planetside and WoW with the first few weeks.

Neocron will have safe zones (it should have more than it has now actually) and it will always have the LE chip so players can, you know, actually play the game.

100% right.

Reed

[kane]

I honestly dont think Kane is a griefer wanting more unLE'd people to gank. He's an old player returning after many years and I think he simply misses the way NC used to be. Unfortunately NC is a completely different game now. When I first started back in NC1 on Pluto I popped my LE out on day 1. I did this because that was the way the game was back then. I joined a clan and leveled with them, which required me to not have an LE in. I op fought with them uncapped as a lot of people used to do back then. The population was big and there were always people around to help you out or help defend when things got rough.

The culture of the game was different back then, there was a certain respectability associated with the player base, there was honor amongst people. This is not true in the current NC (for the most part). Things had to change in order for the game to survive, the player base had to be consolidated in one area, thats why everyone is allowed in p1 now. The game is not the same as it once was, and probably will never be. Thats not to say that it can't be fun or enjoyable, but it can't be the way it was. Multiple accounts on a 4 slot server dramatically changes playstyle.

I think Kane and many others (myself included) miss the way things used to be. But unfortunately I don't think it can ever go back.

Well said friend.

[Kame]

cLets take a look at the common gripes against gankers.

- Leveling Area Ganking.
I think this hardly happens in the lower-lv areas of the game, like cellars, sidestreets and so on, and is mostly prominent in places like chaos caves, regent, fire-mobs zone, etc. Arguably, these high-lv caves/hunting-grounds are in fact high-lv, so one would expect high-lv runners in there, not CR 0, xx/13 lowbie chars. Ultimately, I think runners should be allowed, even rewarded for competing for hunting-grounds. I also think no LEd-solo runner should be able to "lockdown" a high level dungeon to himself, especially not an LE'd droner, as was the case with MC5 when base commander was indoors.
Ultimately, with more players not wearing LE, one would not have to go very far to before they encounter another high-lv, PVP-ready char.
** I personally go out hunting for runners to kill in popular fire-mobs hunting zones, and this is possibly one of my favorite aspects of the game. I call this looking for "customers". Nothing quite as fun as killing a PPU and watching his fighters scramble for cover/HP, only to be picked off one by one... This to me, is NC at it's best.


- Newbie Ganking
While it is kinda sad to kill someone /20 lvs under yours, this isn't something that should be limited by game mechanics. Although trends do change, I remember a time when runners would call out on public chat channels about certain runners ganking low-lv runners in certain areas of the game. Usually, a spontaneous "neighborhood watch" would assemble and come to regulate the area, which in turn promoted players socially interacting with one another.
Ultimately, with more players not wearing LE, one would not have to go very far to before they encounter another high-lv, PVP-ready char.
**Now I will admit I've done it in the past, and I've done it recently also. I'll agree though it does feel shitty and I don't consider this fun at all.


- Ally Killing
Nothing should stand against the fact that you think so or so runner from your own faction is an asshole, and that you wish to let him know where you stand in a more... personal manner. Just like RL, the fact you two belong to the same association/group does not guarantee you two will get along well. Besides, it is known fact that a LOT of players keep alts to either completely disregard SL/FS with, or to simply be in a faction that is enemy to their foes.
Ultimately, with more players not wearing LE, one would not have to go very far to before they encounter another high-lv, PVP-ready char.




I don't think the game should be made into a PVP-only... for sure no. But I think a line needs to be drawn regarding end-game content and it's availability to LEd players. As I stated before it makes no sense that a solo high-lv LEd player can lockdown a hunting ground to himself, when the rest of players have no means to remove him or compete for the spot.

[Netphreak]

I'm actually starting to think a lot of this issue could be/is caused by the fact that weapon damage is completely out of balance making only a select few viable and those require lots and lots and lots of grinding.

I remember fighting Paineaser using PE's on my uncapped PE with a TAR and not dying in a few seconds. I was clearly out matched damage wise but I had a 'slight' chance using the terrain to my advantage.

I also remember have tons of fun pvp'n on my uncapped tank using a TPC, and my damage was actually really decent on that. Still out classed by a CS, but once again, I had a chance of competing.

[Izeo]

I think some people in this thread are mixing PvPers with griefers. A griefer will come to a levelling spot and attempt to pk anyone not wearing an LE.

From my experiences they are one in the same most of the time, in fact many times they say "well i guess you should have had your LE in if you didnt want us to kill you in a leveling spot" .

Not like PVPers will always have others on to op fight with

I think a better way to say it is yes, not all PVPers are random gankers, and I of course believe that you are not Will, but that it's not unheard of for a PVPer to also be a random ganker.

- Ally Killing
Nothing should stand against the fact that you think so or so runner from your own faction is an asshole, and that you wish to let him know where you stand in a more... personal manner. Just like RL, the fact you two belong to the same association/group does not guarantee you two will get along well. Besides, it is known fact that a LOT of players keep alts to either completely disregard SL/FS with, or to simply be in a faction that is enemy to their foes.

It happened to me more than I liked in NC1, and I didn't trash-talk people or act like a douche in global chat (IIRC I didn't even use the global chat), was polite to traders, didn't have any alts to spy on enemy factions. I think "punishing" a green runner for misbehavior is more uncommon than players who just do it because they think it's funny.

---

edit: I should say this now - I'm not trying to say that PVPers are "wrong" or even that gankers are "wrong", and I'm DEFINITELY not saying that "I'm right and that everyone should think how I think". The game needs polite PVPers, and needs gankers, and probably even needs the more extreme, hate-filled types you see in OOC as well. I actually think all that is essential for NC. But don't mess with the LE. Even if there are a some hunting MC5 with it, I'd be willing to bet that they are in the minority of LE users, and that most either are not ready for PVP or don't feel like competing with anyone at that time.

[Forget My Name]

I support PvE at all levels of the game, but I never liked that PvErs can lock down a leveling area.

This is a game mechanic issue, as an un le'd runner can do the same thing to an le runner.

If there was a mechanic that auto booted everyone from an instance a minute or two after the instance was cleared of mobs, then this wouldn't be an issue.

[BlueRobot]

Just remove that tard chip pls. Ppl can rp in their apartments.

[Forget My Name]

Just remove that tard chip pls. Ppl can rp in their apartments.

ReaKKtor did this years ago, and it failed.

Not going to happen.

Now get back to PvPing in Plaza 2.

[BlueRobot]

It didnt fail, people who bring up neptune fail at logic.

[Drachenpaladin]

Just remove that tard chip pls. Ppl can rp in their apartments.

One of the most stupid arguments of all time.

Why not turn the tables? Ppl can PvP in their apartments fine either, keep them off the streets... or make an implant you require for doing PvP?

[BlueRobot]

Because everyone I ever talked to ingame or on TS hates that tard chip, and there are just some carebears on the forum who spam how great that chip is all day, because noone reads their shit stories in the rp subforum.