rework freeze

[Torg]

this is a proposition to bring a whole weapon line back to usability: freeze/parashock.

since freeze/parashock was found to be imbalanced, its effectivity got reduced greatly, so both freezer guns and parashock psi modules are widely left unused. switching the paralyzing effect to a new (low) damage class "shock/electricity" would change that situation and bring freezer pistols, rifles, cannons, psi back into the game. the original paralyze effect could either be removed completely or kept to the actual low level, all that's needed is to add some damage.
(i always liked both animation and sound of the paralyze weapons, the effect not so much. ^^)

to my understanding this could be changed pretty easy in the depths of nc's code within one of the next patches.

[William Antrim]

No. Just because I cannot post a simple no I have to write a large sentence. If it has to work then it has to be PVE only. No chance of it ever being brought into pvp. So no.


P.s I cannot see how or why this change makes the parashock viable or even in any way good. So still NO.

Why would you want to use a low damaging weapon with no freeze effect when you could have a higher damaging weapon with no freeze effect. You havent thought this one through.

[Torg]

goodness. let me try this: "remove the freeze effect from freezer/parashock weapons and add some damage, so that whole weapon line is no longer useless". i dont want to bring parayze back. i just want to get these nice weapons back to use.

[William Antrim]

But with low damage and no freeze effect there is no point using the weapon. We can just use a much higher damaging weapon to kill said mob. With low damage AND a freeze effect you get shit damage and the chance to freeze the mob in place while it blasts you. This can be done using range alone.

IF you bring this into PVE it might work.... i am skeptical.

IF you bring it into PVP you will be the most hated man on the server.

I am telling you all the reasons why this wont work. It is nothing personal. Its just a bad idea. For the reasons stated above.

[Mokoi]

just so I understand this: the idea is to completely remove "freeze" (stun/para etc.) and simply increase damage to make the weapons viable choices?

[CMaster]

The psi para modules have already been remade as "frostation" (or at least a lot of them have).

I think it would be nice to see the Freezer weapons rebranded as "electrical" weapons (which they sort of already are), no para whatsoever, and brought into line with the rest of the weapon types when weapon damage is fixed. Make them a short-range, very high fire rate beam weapon would be my approach, I think. Deal energy/xray (moddable) like warbot beams.

I'm not sure it was so much imbalance that killed off para (although holy para was pretty overpowered compared to all others). It was just that it was 0 fun whatsoever to be on the receiving end of.

Edit @ Mokoi
A new style of weapon would be nice, and the animations/sounds/etc are all there already. Course, not a lot of point unless weapon damage in general is going to be looked at and made sensical.

[Torg]

we dont ever get to a mutual understanding, do we? undoubtedly that extra damage needs to be adjusted, so that the weapon will fit its TL. since freezer weapons are all lower TL, no one will probably use them in PvP.
example: summer leech, TL 98, lowest TC cannon. haha. good enough to impress mr. warbot (or any of his fiery brothers), until you get your hands on a (stronger) rava.
and, read my lips: no freeze effect beyond what we have today.
you might as well throw your freeze-tech-parts into the melee garbage can, tho.

[William Antrim]

Its not about understanding. I understand perfectly well.

I disagree. That is the difference. I disagree for the reasons stated above. I am quite happy to discuss why and there is no malice meant. I feel that "freeze" has no place in NC for the reasons stated further up.

[Mr. Kassad]

So people think that a "freeze-weapon" or "semi-stun" in a game where movement and speed is important would be a bad thing?

I agree that the freeze capabilities may have been too strong in PvP but I think it was an awesome feature.

Apart from PVP: COP- and STORMBOTs are more or less useless nowadays because they cannot freeze properly anymore. We would need way less safezones and SL would be more important again, if our police would be something that people fear.

[CMaster]

So people think that a "freeze-weapon" or "semi-stun" in a game where movement and speed is important would be a bad thing?

Yeah, it sounds like a decent idea.
But the reality was seriously to the detriment of enjoying playing the game.
One of the biggest problems is that at the end of the day, it's main use was as a gank tool. Nobody could afford to use a stun weapon one-vs-one (made worse by the fact that the best para by far was PPU-only). So instead all it really did was make larger teams able to stick someone in place and belt them, removing the ability of the outnumbered player(s) to use clever movement and tactics to triumph (or at least survive). And then in big fights, where everyone was using it, it reduced the game to something of a slow-motion slug-fest rather than something fluid and exciting.

[CMaster]

Edit: Double post, delete please

[William Antrim]

So people think that a "freeze-weapon" or "semi-stun" in a game where movement and speed is important would be a bad thing?

I agree that the freeze capabilities may have been too strong in PvP but I think it was an awesome feature.

Apart from PVP: COP- and STORMBOTs are more or less useless nowadays because they cannot freeze properly anymore. We would need way less safezones and SL would be more important again, if our police would be something that people fear.

Removing parashock was far and away the best thing the Devs ever did for this game.

[BlueRobot]

For fucks sake, no.

William and CMaster already explained why it would just be a fun killer in PvP, therefor no.

[Dropout]

Am I misunderstanding the OP completely?
Isnt he just asking to make the freezer weapons viable? Without bringing the horrible para effect back?
If so, I definately wouldnt mind.. More viable weapons is only a good thing IMO.


And removing para, was by far the thing I liked the most about 2.2 (and probably the only thing lol).

[Jameson Clarke]

I'd like it if the freeze weapons gave a "chilled" effect where you FREQ was lowered causing slower attacks and reloads, but your movement speed was untouched.